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Old 04-18-2010, 07:11 PM   #1
Web_cole
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Default Command and Control Feedback in .9

Quote:
Originally Posted by [T-ADM]Robbi^ View Post
As for the moans of CnC being fail etc, well, it's games from the PRT which will help us to make changes to the mode etc
I did search and couldn't find anything on CnC, think I have seen some threads, but not for .9

So, just to say I have played 5 full rounds of CnC in .9, one of those was Qinling in the PRT C8.5 not even an hour ago.

I think the game mode essentially does not work as it is right now, for a few reasons.

1. The maps are too big. When you are going to have such small areas of engagement, namely those around the FoBs, I'm not sure it makes sense to have such huge maps. All this actually does is draw out the initial recon period to ridiculous lengths, leaving many players- even most players- nothing to do but wait.

2. Assets. As it stands the most viable tactic is to find the enemy FoB, laze it, bomb it. Tallying that up, we're talking 1 pilot in a Scout chopper, 1 guy to laze, 1 guy to bomb (rough approximation). Meanwhile the rest of the team sit on their thumbs. That's not even an exaggeration, during our PRT battle standing orders were for everybody to stay at main except for those few who were lazing or flying. It's not at all easy to see how that is completely unsatisfying, and the removal of certain assets is key to getting anything like a working game mode, imo.

TLDR:
1. Smaller maps for more diverse action and more intense engagements (or any engagements for that matter.)
2. Less powerful assets so that more people on a team are involved in the battle.
3. As it stands, for most players the gameplay just ends up drawn out and aimless.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:47 AM   #2
General_J0k3r
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

maybe one could have an insurgency-style marker for enemy fob's after it has been up for 20 minutes or so in a range of maybe 300-500m around the actual fob. CATA didn't know they pos of the NATO fob for almost the whole game, and believe me, we looked so the only thing we could do is stay around ours and defend it (successfully i might say) but i think it would've been nice for the game if we had been in the position to stage an attack.

also: there should be a bleed instantly when a fob is destroyed. i don't know if it was a server issue but there was no bleed for some reason.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:48 AM   #3
Kain888
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web_cole View Post
I think the game mode essentially does not work as it is right now, for a few reasons.
Good that somebody made topic about CnC. I think CnC need some changes but it does work, on one map only though. It's Yamalia. :P Had great rounds on Yamalia CnC on RT or PMC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Web_cole View Post
2. Assets. As it stands the most viable tactic is to find the enemy FoB, laze it, bomb it. Tallying that up, we're talking 1 pilot in a Scout chopper, 1 guy to laze, 1 guy to bomb (rough approximation). Meanwhile the rest of the team sit on their thumbs. That's not even an exaggeration, during our PRT battle standing orders were for everybody to stay at main except for those few who were lazing or flying. It's not at all easy to see how that is completely unsatisfying, and the removal of certain assets is key to getting anything like a working game mode, imo.
IMO that's the biggest issue in CnC. Tanks and especially jets/attack choppers can attack FOB and ending game without help of other team. There should be rule on CnC that FOB can't be destroyed by bombs, missiles, etc. Spawn on it should be only disabled for some time after hit. The lack of heavy assets is the reason why CnC is fun only on Yamalia.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:49 PM   #4
Robbi
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web_cole View Post
I did search and couldn't find anything on CnC, think I have seen some threads, but not for .9

So, just to say I have played 5 full rounds of CnC in .9, one of those was Qinling in the PRT C8.5 not even an hour ago.

I think the game mode essentially does not work as it is right now, for a few reasons.

1. The maps are too big. When you are going to have such small areas of engagement, namely those around the FoBs, I'm not sure it makes sense to have such huge maps. All this actually does is draw out the initial recon period to ridiculous lengths, leaving many players- even most players- nothing to do but wait.

2. Assets. As it stands the most viable tactic is to find the enemy FoB, laze it, bomb it. Tallying that up, we're talking 1 pilot in a Scout chopper, 1 guy to laze, 1 guy to bomb (rough approximation). Meanwhile the rest of the team sit on their thumbs. That's not even an exaggeration, during our PRT battle standing orders were for everybody to stay at main except for those few who were lazing or flying. It's not at all easy to see how that is completely unsatisfying, and the removal of certain assets is key to getting anything like a working game mode, imo.

TLDR:
1. Smaller maps for more diverse action and more intense engagements (or any engagements for that matter.)
2. Less powerful assets so that more people on a team are involved in the battle.
3. As it stands, for most players the gameplay just ends up drawn out and aimless.

Glad to see someone used their initiative here mate, well done.

Will add my thoughts later on.

"This bitch is clearly missing every point I have mentioned prior. Not to mention Craig that you have fuck all else to do with the management of PR; you're welcome to ask me to leave, and welcome to ask Jaymz why he left. You obviously want to make something of it. Go ahead, at least have the balls to ask" - Gaz
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:31 PM   #5
Oddsodz

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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Bleed should be instant and hard. Or there is no point going to kill the FOb in the 1st place as we found out in the PRT battle.


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Old 04-19-2010, 06:50 PM   #6
Kain888
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Instant and hard bleed didn't work as well. In one match when someone put FOB in wrong place they instantly lost game in 2 min.
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:42 PM   #7
ret1
Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Unfortunately, this game mode is not played very often on public servers. I have never seen a populated server playing this mode. I think it needs to be improved upon for it to become popular enough for it to be developed further, otherwise, perhaps efforts should be directed to other parts of the mod, and this put on the back burner.

my 2 bits
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:50 PM   #8
ytman
Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web_cole View Post

1. The maps are too big. When you are going to have such small areas of engagement, namely those around the FoBs, I'm not sure it makes sense to have such huge maps. All this actually does is draw out the initial recon period to ridiculous lengths, leaving many players- even most players- nothing to do but wait.
Very much agreed. Though the other alternative would be to allow multiple FO's to be built. With the new rally system and new CnC rules the use of two FO's could still be effective.

Quote:
2. Assets. As it stands the most viable tactic is to find the enemy FoB, laze it, bomb it. Tallying that up, we're talking 1 pilot in a Scout chopper, 1 guy to laze, 1 guy to bomb (rough approximation). Meanwhile the rest of the team sit on their thumbs. That's not even an exaggeration, during our PRT battle standing orders were for everybody to stay at main except for those few who were lazing or flying. It's not at all easy to see how that is completely unsatisfying, and the removal of certain assets is key to getting anything like a working game mode, imo.
I disagree. Air-Superiority is something that is completely integral in modern warfare and the current incarnation of CnC really hits that idea home. A team should be punished if they are incapable of neutralizing the enemy Airforce. Sure it is a hard lesson learned but it is true.

If Airpower is thought to be too powerful in CnC then I would suggest allowing for the testing of Radar Station assets or upping the ammount of AA.

----

I personally want to add that 20 wires/foxhole per FO seems a tad too short for such an important position. If every AAS map is allowed a maximum of 100 foxholes/wires then I think CnC should get that for its one "Uber" FO. This would allow for clever battle lines to be formed and even halt the movement of APCs which have in my experience lead to a short, suicidal, and cheap rush to our FO and then an artillery strike.

I also suggest that you should have the FO be resistant to artillery strikes much like the INS/Militia/Tali Caches are as the above experience was really disheartening.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:26 PM   #9
L4gi
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

Ground AA wont help shit when bombs can be dropped beyond AA range. If my teams pilots take out your teams jets for example, you will be screwed.


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Old 04-23-2010, 07:56 AM   #10
[R-MOD]BabylonCome
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Default Re: Command and Control Feedback in .9

I personally think the maps are the right size, any smaller and the FOB's can end up being too close to each other every time.

From the times I have played this mode with my clan, we split into 2 main groups - scouting/attacking & defending. The defending squad build the FOB and it's defences and yes will admit they can then have a small wait while the enemy finds them and starts attacking, but this time can be spent ensuring all angles are covered and everybody knows what they are doing when the attack starts. The attacking group sends out air and ground assets looking for the enemy and when spotted, reforms to plan an assault.

I've not played this mode since 0.917 and am not sure if the ticket bleed unbalance has been fixed yet, hope it has as we have our first inter-clan scrim in CnC mode in a few weeks and we are all really looking forward to it.


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