AK47 & NATO ammo debate

[USMCMIDN]

Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611

Source? Because I happen to have done a fair bit of study on the history of the Pashtun tribes who make up the majority of the Taliban (and who made of the majority of the Mujahdeen in the '80s), and they are not by any stretch soldiers in the traditional western sense. They use guns, and have a strict code of honor, but there is a reason they're using AKs and true marksman are few and far between in Afghanistan - they rely on their knowledge of local terrain and hit and run tactics over weapons skill. They are not particularly disciplined, although their sense of honor is intrinsically linked to fighting (and killing), especially against foreigners. They are pissed off dudes defending what their homeland and culture, and they are now a far cry from the well trained and equipped mujahdeen of the Soviet-Afghan war. If the US military is having trouble teaching the ANA to take care of their weapons, why do you think loose bands of tribal warriors are doing better?

As Generation Kill Quote I repeat...

Dude stood and tried to pop off a RPG...that's combat discipline dawg...

The Taliban are well disciplined during combat in the sense they will try and do what ever it takes to kill a Westerner and will wait for days IOT ambush Coalition troops etc...There are a ton of examples where Taliban disciplines out do government armies (Saddam's Army they fled surrendered etc...) I bet everyone currently fighting against the Taliban well respect them! Now when it comes to dealing with EPWs and civilians yes they are not well disciplined (killing civilians on purpose, propaganda, IEDs, killing unarmed soldiers/civilians/contractors, not following rules of engagement). As for the Muj thing... the Taliban are essentially the same as them, after all the Taliban were "made" IOT overthrow the corrupt govt run under the Muj. Time and time again organizations and bands are formed in Stan to overthrow "bad" people. All show their own levels of discipline and crimes. Also one can argue the Taliban are being equipped by Iran...but im not going into that I know nothing about this just read it online somewhere. History repeats itself my friend. If the Coalition fails in Stan other bands will form to fight the corrupt govt again and again.

[Hotrod525]

I wont try an other caliber into a gun designed for one, and to push even further, i'm pretty sure that using a M16 designed for 63Gr of powder with a 5.56mm cartrige that would have 136Gr in it will result into serious injury to the shooter.

Like said above : 1 Gun = 1 Caliber.

The only way to change a caliber of a gun, is to change the barrel for pistol, the upper receiver for assault rifle etc...etc... so basicly pointless.

[Scot]

Originally Posted by USMCMIDN

As Generation Kill Quote I repeat...

Dude stood and tried to pop off a RPG...that's combat discipline dawg...

Generation Kill was a TV show about the Iraq invasion...

[CastleBravo]

An AK can be made to fire 5.56x45 just like an AR-15 can be made to fire 7.62x39. A gun made to fire one caliber will not be capable of firing the other without being converted (in which case it will no longer be able to fire its original caliber). Usually the conversion requires a new barrel chambered for the round you want to fire, a new bolt designed to interface with that barrel and round, and a new magazine.

Some calibers like .223 REM and 5.56x45mm NATO are almost exactly the same just with slightly different specifications. 5.56 NATO has a slightly thicker case and is more powerful (rated to a higher pressure) so it can be unsafe to fire 5.56 in a gun designed for .223 only (it might blow up from the higher pressure generated by the more powerful ammunition) .223 can be fired from a 5.56 weapon safely, but the NATO spec has a longer leade which is the distance from the end of the cartridge case to the point where the rifling engages the bullet, so .223 fired from a 5.56 gun could prove less accurate since the bullet has to travel farther through the barrel before it interfaces with the rifling than it would when fired from a .223 chamber.

Trying to use 5.56 in a gun chambered for 7.62x39 would be like throwing live ammo into an old hand crank meat grinder, holding it up to your face like you would a rifle to get a nice cheek weld, and then cranking it until it goes bang. Odds are you are gonna crank it all day and nothing will happen, but if you do manage to get it to bang it will not be pleasant.

[USMCMIDN]

Originally Posted by Scot

Generation Kill was a TV show about the Iraq invasion...

Thanks but it was the quote that mattered...

[Trexian]

Here's an analogy.

You have a finger. You have a nose. Sure, your finger fits in your own nose. It might fit in another guy's nose.

But... are you really going to stick your finger in another guy's nose? Even in an emergency?

I didn't think so.

[Colonelcool125]

Originally Posted by USMCMIDN

Thanks but it was the quote that mattered...

A quote from a TV show that takes place several countries away from Taliban.

[BloodBane611]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]Trexian

Here's an analogy.

You have a finger. You have a nose. Sure, your finger fits in your own nose. It might fit in another guy's nose.

But... are you really going to stick your finger in another guy's nose? Even in an emergency?

I didn't think so.

Haha Trexian, that's awesomely quotable.

[Qaiex]

Originally Posted by USMCMIDN

As Generation Kill Quote I repeat...

Dude stood and tried to pop off a RPG...that's combat discipline dawg...

The Taliban are well disciplined during combat in the sense they will try and do what ever it takes to kill a Westerner and will wait for days IOT ambush Coalition troops etc...

Except, of course, when it's cold.
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f11-...-day-work.html

[mangeface]

Originally Posted by HardcoreCook

Some insurgents use the AK74, but the 47 is still cheaper, so youll see the 47 more often than the 74.

I beg to differ. I just purchased a Bulgarian AK74 for a grand total of 435USD...brand new. Plus, 2,160 rounds of Russian surplus 5.45x39mm ammo for...289USD. So, on average is the US the AK-47 cost 0.22USD to shoot per shot. The AK-74 is 0.13USD to shoot per shot. I know that insurgents can get shit waaaaay cheaper than I can. The only difference may be that they have 7.62x39mm ammo stockpiled out the ass, so getting the AK-74 is unreasonable when you can the 2 different rifles for about the same price.

Originally Posted by gazzthompson

I have regularly found i know more than soldiers about equipment because im a arm chair general who gets woody over guns and most soldiers dont actually care.

Cheers, as I also fucking love guns.