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Old 04-20-2010, 05:37 PM   #11
BloodBane611
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

Let me be more clear: the reason for that "safety" rule is not shits and giggles. It's because, more often than not, failing to follow it will lead to you badly injuring yourself and destroying your weapon.



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Old 04-20-2010, 09:58 PM   #12
Pariel
Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbiie
Yes because Insurgents follow safety Guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611 View Post
Let me be more clear: the reason for that "safety" rule is not shits and giggles. It's because, more often than not, failing to follow it will lead to you badly injuring yourself and destroying your weapon.
This is the point, not the technical safety argument. The reality is that anyone attempting to interchange NATO and Russian ammo will rapidly turn their weapon, and possibly parts of their body, into a pile of trash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbiie
P.s - The Taliban clean and Oil their weapons, alot, they aren't your standard Insurgents, they are well organised. That said, they still need all the ammunition they can get.

As for the Rate Of Fire - hell I bet I could do a botch job with modifying my belt to hold a different round! Some padding etc. wouldn't be perfect and would probably be dangerous, but as long as it works for a bit who cares?

Modifying the rounds would be time consuming and dangerous, but could lead to it working. I'm not sure, would be interesting to find out.
Besides seriously doubting the technical veracity of your argument, the rounds will still damage the rifle, or not function correctly. Either way, you have an issue.

It might, perhaps (although I find it unlikely), be interesting to find out if this could work in a combat situation where I had run out of ammo. There are absolutely no other circumstances where I would even consider this (and given the likelihood of this working, I'd probably taking running away over this).

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611 View Post
I have also heard that .223 rounds can be used in rifles chambered for 5.56 (but not the reverse), however I don't know anyone who actively practices using the incorrect cartridge for their rifle.
It's not an uncommon practice at all. It's one of the selling points of black rifles, and it's the reason many 5.56 rifles have an "M4 style" feed -- it allows .223 or 5.56 to chamber correctly (ie: not jam).

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611 View Post
I have accidentally chambered 16 gauge shotgun ammo in a 12 gauge shotgun. As Trexian has pointed out, I ended up with a heavy rattle, since 16 gauge is much, much smaller than 12 gauge, and the firing pin can't hit the primer. Thankfully I was stuck wondering why my 12 gauge sounded weird and wouldn't fire, rather than why half a shotgun was stuck in my eye.
So that's where all the ammo for the Ithaca went.

Was I there when this happened?
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

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Originally Posted by Pariel View Post
It's not an uncommon practice at all. It's one of the selling points of black rifles, and it's the reason many 5.56 rifles have an "M4 style" feed -- it allows .223 or 5.56 to chamber correctly (ie: not jam).
Yeah, I forgot about that. Nubbish, as usual.

Quote:
So that's where all the ammo for the Ithaca went.

Was I there when this happened?
That was like 1/4 my lifetime ago dude, and I can't even tell you what I ate for breakfast. I do remember I wasn't alone. Also, I remember that 12 gauge ammo doesn't fit into the chamber of the Ithaca.

See, I learned something



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Old 04-20-2010, 10:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

One side note: the Afghans had a long tradition of excellent gunsmithing. There is/was a cottage industry of making high quality firearms - of course, most of them are what we would consider ancient, or Curios and Relics in USian.

And, I am completely on board with the notion that men in combat can come up with some amazing field-expedient weapons.

But, those items are all based on solid engineering (even if it is the kind that isn't taught in classrooms, but handed down from generation to generation of farmers, cowboys, and hunters).

Like someone else suggested, it would be far easier to buy/capture/steal/pillage a proper weapon for the available ammo than to waste time as Gunny Frankenstein.

All IMHO, naturally.

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:19 AM   #15
Masaq
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

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Originally Posted by Herbiie View Post
Yes I know dumbass.

Just because it's a different calibre doesn't mean it won't work.

The difference is very small, ti won't be ideal, and will probably cause quite a few stoppages but it is possible.

So, infact, You're wrong wrong wrong. Please don't try to be too smart for you're own good.
Heh, you're joking right?

7.62x39 has a 39mm case length.
7.62x51 has a 51mm case length.

That's more than "very small" difference - the NATO round is 12mm longer; 12mm is almost a third of the total length of the SovBlock round. Wanna go pushing a round that's 30% larger than intended into your weapon?

Good luck with that, and if you're really going to insult others then please do so on the back of *actually* knowing wtf you're on about. Next time someone tells you that you can fit a 7.62N round into a standard AK-47 chambered for 7.62x39, feel free to ask them to demonstrate it for you. I'd have a first aid kit handy.


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Old 04-21-2010, 04:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

The thing is herbie, soldiers arnt the most reliable sources all the time, not all soldiers care about equipment used in the forces othe than the ones they use on a daily basis. If i where to believe everything soldiers told me i would believe we are currently not using ACOG's (the guy didnt even know what an ACOG is, and hes done 2 tours of Afghanistan ).

I have regularly found i know more than soldiers about equipment because im a arm chair general who gets woody over guns and most soldiers dont actually care.

Also this is the internet, at the end of the day if you cant source something don't make the claim in the first place.


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Old 04-21-2010, 04:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

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Originally Posted by Herbiie View Post
P.s - The Taliban clean and Oil their weapons, alot, they aren't your standard Insurgents, they are well organised.
Source? Because I happen to have done a fair bit of study on the history of the Pashtun tribes who make up the majority of the Taliban (and who made of the majority of the Mujahdeen in the '80s), and they are not by any stretch soldiers in the traditional western sense. They use guns, and have a strict code of honor, but there is a reason they're using AKs and true marksman are few and far between in Afghanistan - they rely on their knowledge of local terrain and hit and run tactics over weapons skill. They are not particularly disciplined, although their sense of honor is intrinsically linked to fighting (and killing), especially against foreigners. They are pissed off dudes defending what their homeland and culture, and they are now a far cry from the well trained and equipped mujahdeen of the Soviet-Afghan war. If the US military is having trouble teaching the ANA to take care of their weapons, why do you think loose bands of tribal warriors are doing better?



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Old 04-21-2010, 05:55 AM   #18
CallousDisregard
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

I am just guessing here but I would bet the highland tribes take better care of their weapons than the ANA because those weapons are more important to them.
They don't have Coalition forces to call on if something goes wrong.
That being said, I'm sure parts are an issue way up in the mountains.

On the subject of ammo, nobody mentioned .50/12.7 ...are those interchangeable in an emergency ?
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:09 AM   #19
Jaymz
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Default AK47 & NATO ammo debate

debate moved for throwing another off topic


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Old 04-21-2010, 10:28 AM   #20
Masaq
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Default Re: U.S. leaves Afghanistan’s ‘Valley of Death’

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Originally Posted by CallousDisregard View Post
I am just guessing here but I would bet the highland tribes take better care of their weapons than the ANA because those weapons are more important to them.
They don't have Coalition forces to call on if something goes wrong.
That being said, I'm sure parts are an issue way up in the mountains.

On the subject of ammo, nobody mentioned .50/12.7 ...are those interchangeable in an emergency ?
That depends entirely on the second figure in the calibre - .50 inches and 12.7mm refer to the diameter of the round, and ignores the length. You'd need to know how long the casing is on both rounds (and the shape of the round and its casing) to be able to state whether or not it would fit.

The standard NATO 0.50 BMG round is 12.7x99mm, whereas the Soviet equivalent was/is the 12.7x108mm - almost a centimetre longer and not interchangeable.

However, there's plenty of other 0.50 rounds of varying lengths. Doubt you'd want to swap any of it out with NATO rounds tho - 12 mm caliber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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