m-16a2 vs L85a2

[Mad Max]

The rifling is different in the Marine version of the M4A1. It's the Army who get stuck with the crap ones that have serious damage dealing issues because of the slow rounds. It's a big problem with 5.56 and short barrels, they don't fragment like they're supposed to if the muzzle velocity is too low which is why M4's are often called weak.

[Agent Johnson]

the m16 is most likely easier to weld around in cqb because its counter part l85 has the bullpup design

[Mad Max]

It's generally easier to move something quicker and more accurately that's closer to your chest than something further away, which is why SMG's are almost always used by SWAT teams and what have you as they'll most likely be used in confined spaces. A Bullpup is closer to the chest than a regular rifle and is also shorter whilst having the same barrel length. It's a simple matter of physics really. An M16A2 will be vastly inferior to an L85A2 simply because of length in CQB. Try it. Use a stick or something, see which is easier and faster to aim with, a long or short one.

[six7]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

It's generally easier to move something quicker and more accurately that's closer to your chest than something further away, which is why SMG's are almost always used by SWAT teams and what have you as they'll most likely be used in confined spaces. A Bullpup is closer to the chest than a regular rifle and is also shorter whilst having the same barrel length. It's a simple matter of physics really. An M16A2 will be vastly inferior to an L85A2 simply because of length in CQB. Try it. Use a stick or something, see which is easier and faster to aim with, a long or short one.

hes right on that one, although the kick on that gun is aweful (like an angry mule on crack )

[Mad Max]

L85's? Kick? There's naff all to them. They're pretty well balanced, a small jolt, no more than an M16. Probably less actually because of the weight distribution and how it's supported by your body.

[Deuce6]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The rifling is different in the Marine version of the M4A1. It's the Army who get stuck with the crap ones that have serious damage dealing issues because of the slow rounds. It's a big problem with 5.56 and short barrels, they don't fragment like they're supposed to if the muzzle velocity is too low which is why M4's are often called weak.

Eh, we're equipped with the M855 ball round, that has a steel penetrator tip. It's usually called a "green tip" round. It's not designed to fragment. If you use the wrong type of ammo, you'll get crappy performance. The M855 is slightly heavier than traditional 5.56 mm rounds. Muzzle velocity is rated at over 3,000 feet per second as well.

[Deuce6]

And the only problem I ever had with M855 ball rounds is the fact that they are STILL too light. The round can easily change trajectory when penetrating glass. It sucks when you think you fill some guys face full of lead only to have him get shot in the ass and fall out of his car. And now we had to take care of him! ACK!

[Doug97]

Yes, but they DO fragment above a certain velocity, which is when they are at their most lethal.

[Deuce6]

Originally Posted by Doug97

Yes, but they DO fragment above a certain velocity, which is when they are at their most lethal.

If you can show proof, i'll shutup.

[Doug97]

Originally Posted by Deuce6

If you can show proof, i'll shutup.

Originally Posted by http://www.firearmstactical.com/pagea18.htm

U.S. Military M855 5.56x45mm M16A2 Wound Profile Illustration. Measurement scale in centimeters (5 cm = 2-inches).

Tested in ballistic gelatin.

Originally Posted by http://www.fen-net.de/norbert.arnoldi/army/wound.html

The large permanent cavity [the M855] produces, shown in the wound profile, was observed by surgeons who served in Vietnam, but the tissue disruption mechanism responsible was not clear until the importance of bullet fragmentation as a cause of tissue disruption was worked out and described. As shown on the wound profile, this full-metal-jacketed bullet travels point-forward in tissue for about 12cm after which it yaws to 90°, flattens, and breaks at the cannelure (groove around bullet midsection into which the cartridge neck is crimped). The bullet point flattens but remains in one piece, retaining about 60 per cent of the original bullet weight. The rear portion breaks into many fragments that penetrate up to 7cm radially from the bullet path. The temporary cavity stretch, its effect increased by perforation and weakening of the tissue by fragments, then causes a much enlarged permanent cavity by detaching tissue pieces. The degree of bullet fragmentation decreases with increased shooting distance (as striking velocity decreases. At a shooting distance over about 100m the bullet breaks at the cannelure, forming two large fragments and, at over 200m, it no longer breaks, although it continues to flatten somewhat, until 400m.