Corps Seeks Replacement for M249 SAW

[BloodBane611]

Plus I find them much more annoying to change out while in the prone than the M249's box. I still use a C-mag with my M4 at the range, but only for target practice/plinking

I have seen a lot of reports that the C-Mag is not tough enough to work well in combat. What truth is there in this rumor?

I could see how this would be somewhat useful, but as far as using it as a dedicated suppression weapon I think western militaries have made enough mistakes in that regard. You cannot convert a rifle into a SAW by giving it a thicker barrel and converting it ot open bolt. Its usefulness to increase the suppressing fire of a suqad is easy to see, but to replace the SAW with it would be foolish.

[Teek]

Bob, wouldn't the gas piston and open bolt help alleviate chamber fouling?
(I wouldn't leave it on auto for more than I had to though)

[WNxKenwayy]

The latest version of the m249 (ODA versions mostly right now which is generally precursor's to 'big army') don't even have a mag well anymore because they are useless and just add to the weight.

An open bolt weapon has ups and downs. So long as you can lock the bolt forward, with a round in the chamber, and NOT have it fire until you pull the trigger, which from my understanding this does have that capability, you have an interesting setup. Open bolt design allows for higher RoF, but the idea of it allowing for less heat is, more or less, idiotic. The barrel is going to heat up whether its open or closed. You'll notice he poured the water on the m4's barrel, not the bolt. Do the same shit with this new gun and the barrel will boil the water too.

[Teek]

found a page with some infos
OFFER#

info for IAR is 7/8ths down the page.
It says the IAR should fire from 60-100 round STANAG mags (probably a concept/WIP)

what do you think about the SABR, its half way down the page.
why carry a 2 uppers and a lower when you can carry a bolt action sniper rife and m4 just as easily?

[Expendable Grunt]

Originally Posted by WNxKenwayy

The latest version of the m249 (ODA versions mostly right now which is generally precursor's to 'big army') don't even have a mag well anymore because they are useless and just add to the weight.

An open bolt weapon has ups and downs. So long as you can lock the bolt forward, with a round in the chamber, and NOT have it fire until you pull the trigger, which from my understanding this does have that capability, you have an interesting setup. Open bolt design allows for higher RoF, but the idea of it allowing for less heat is, more or less, idiotic. The barrel is going to heat up whether its open or closed. You'll notice he poured the water on the m4's barrel, not the bolt. Do the same shit with this new gun and the barrel will boil the water too.

He touched the bolt of the new IAR.

[[R-MOD]Bob_Marley]

Originally Posted by Teek

Bob, wouldn't the gas piston and open bolt help alleviate chamber fouling?
(I wouldn't leave it on auto for more than I had to though)

Ah, hadn't noticed that it was a Gas Piston rather than a Direct Gas system.

[[R-DEV]Ninja2dan]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

I have seen a lot of reports that the C-Mag is not tough enough to work well in combat. What truth is there in this rumor?

I could see how this would be somewhat useful, but as far as using it as a dedicated suppression weapon I think western militaries have made enough mistakes in that regard. You cannot convert a rifle into a SAW by giving it a thicker barrel and converting it ot open bolt. Its usefulness to increase the suppressing fire of a suqad is easy to see, but to replace the SAW with it would be foolish.

The C-Mag I use feels cheap, like the 50-round mags for a Ruger 10/22. It doesn't jam as much on the range because I fire slow aimed shots, stopping often to set up targets or smoke a cigarette. I would NEVER use a C-Mag in combat. Mine has failed on the range before, and from the article that was linked stating the review under US Army trials, you could read why I wouldn't trust my life on one. They are still awaiting findings from soldiers in the field. If we don't get a report, we know what happened to the testing soldiers.

[Expendable Grunt]

Why are we trying to make new weapons that are supposed to be two weapons at once if we can't make a magazine that doesn't end up being a suckfest?

[[R-DEV]Ninja2dan]

Originally Posted by Expendable Grunt

Why are we trying to make new weapons that are supposed to be two weapons at once if we can't make a magazine that doesn't end up being a suckfest?

Unfortunately the Beta company has been making those things for several years, and I have yet to see many other companies trying to compete with them. It is a well-known fact that this product sucks ass for military deployment, but the military has been placing it in trials because of the fact it is readily available and supports all weapons that use STANAG magazines.

The military also likes to play around with all the cool new stuff that comes out, but that doesn't mean they adopt much of it. Over the past few years many of the new items that were adopted were actually designed BY soldiers FOR soldiers, not shit like this that was made by a company who failed to put much long-term testing into their products.

The only reason the C-Mag is so popular is because of movies and video games, ask any person who has tried using one in combat or in simulated combat and you'll get the same reply; "It sucks".

SUMMARY: THE C-MAG MAGAZINES WERE A FREE ISSUE TO FORT BRAGG, FORT DRUM, FORT CAMPBELL, AND FORT HOOD FOR USE IN THE M249 SQUAD AUTOMATIC WEAPON (SAW). THE C-MAG MAGAZINES ARE AN INTERIM, ALTERNATIVE MEASURE TO MEET OUR NEEDS FOR TRAINING WHILE CONSERVING LINKED 5.56 AMMUNITION. THE C-MAG HAS NOT BEEN ARMY TYPE CLASSIFIED. THE NSN IS MANAGED BY DLA. DURING TESTING, ROUNDS WERE SOMETIMES LEFT LOOSE IN THE C-MAG DRUMS. BLANK AMMUNITION SHOWED A VERY HIGH STOPPAGE RATE.

[Expendable Grunt]

I saw a guy use one of those on the automatic Glock. It was insane.