The EM-2 .280 Assault Rifle

[[R-COM]Darkpowder]

Very interesting post, and video, thanks for that. Not one i have heard of before. I can see the old SA-80 designers now going through old weapon test firing fim reals and going.. "aha!"

[Liquid_Cow]

Anyone got the actual dimensions of the .280 round? As in 7.62X39mm?

This ties into my post a short while back about the recoil of the M14 being a problem before the gun was even built. The Brits knew from the development of this rifle than full auto .30cal was not going to work with a major round (they tried a full auto .303), and the sub machine gun round like the .30 carbine were not powerful enough for main weapon work.

[[R-CON]ReadMenace]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Cow

Anyone got the actual dimensions of the .280 round? As in 7.62X39mm?

You ask? I deliver.

-REad

[Liquid_Cow]

Thanks!

Hehe, 7-08 is my favorite deer round, this is very similar from the looks of it.

[stozzcheese]

Originally Posted by Harrod200

You love rails really bob, you know it.

You're a closet railosexual

hahahahah does the church frown upon this? does he need a councilor?

[[R-DEV]Jaymz]

A little interesting article I found about the SA80,

SA-80 Shame of the British Army

Brings up some really good points about the flaws of a bullpup design. For those too lazy to read the article, here's the points it raises against the SA80 and bullpups in general. I've thrown in a few of my own comments here as well...

1. Inability to fire from right-side cover without overexposure. This can be achieved easily with most designs by simply shooting lefty, like so...



2. No accommodation for people that are left hand/eye dominant shooters. The only military I know of that uses bullpup design weapons and has conversion kits for lefties is Australia. The British Army doesn't have any, nor does the Irish Army (sigh)

3. A beneficial element of randomness at the squad level is lost when everyone is shooting right-handed. This is mentioned in a Ralph Zumbro quote,

"One of the oddball things we discovered in RVN was that if you add a few left-handers to your point squad, it has a better chance of surviving an ambush because they habitually carry their weapons pointed to the right. Also a non smoking point man can SMELL fish-eaters....And somone who is color blind compensates by seeing more texture and can usually spot camouflage, especially day old dead foliage."

[Harrod200]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Jaymz

A little interesting article I found about the SA80,

SA-80 Shame of the British Army

Brings up some really good points about the flaws of a bullpup design. For those too lazy to read the article, here's the points it raises against the SA80 and bullpups in general. I've thrown in a few of my own comments here as well...

1. Inability to fire from right-side cover without overexposure. This can be achieved easily with most designs by simply shooting lefty, like so...



2. No accommodation for people that are left hand/eye dominant shooters. The only military I know of that uses bullpup design weapons and has conversion kits for lefties is Australia. The British Army doesn't have any, nor does the Irish Army (sigh)

3. A beneficial element of randomness at the squad level is lost when everyone is shooting right-handed. This is mentioned in a Ralph Zumbro quote,

"One of the oddball things we discovered in RVN was that if you add a few left-handers to your point squad, it has a better chance of surviving an ambush because they habitually carry their weapons pointed to the right. Also a non smoking point man can SMELL fish-eaters....And somone who is color blind compensates by seeing more texture and can usually spot camouflage, especially day old dead foliage."

All three of those points are related to the lack of ambidextrous use on some weapons, others, such as the FN F2000, which ejects rounds forwards, suffer none of these problems, but still benefit from the greatly reduced length and high accuracy.

Also in the Leftie-friendly club we have the Tavor, which can be changed easily enough in barracks. The SAR-21 is partially leftie friendly, though not completely, the FAMAS can be made into a leftie...

Current designs still seem to favour long rifle layouts or are poorly designed in respects to user friendliness, but there ARE rifles out there in military service which are bullpups and are leftie friendly.

Unfortunately none of these weapons are as yet in the hands of western armies (other than the FAMAS), but when you take away the problem of left handed shooters being unable to use them, you have a lot of advantages over long layouts.

[SHAz_181]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Jaymz

A little interesting article I found about the SA80,

SA-80 Shame of the British Army

Brings up some really good points about the flaws of a bullpup design. For those too lazy to read the article, here's the points it raises against the SA80 and bullpups in general. I've thrown in a few of my own comments here as well...

1. Inability to fire from right-side cover without overexposure. This can be achieved easily with most designs by simply shooting lefty, like so...



2. No accommodation for people that are left hand/eye dominant shooters. The only military I know of that uses bullpup design weapons and has conversion kits for lefties is Australia. The British Army doesn't have any, nor does the Irish Army (sigh)

3. A beneficial element of randomness at the squad level is lost when everyone is shooting right-handed. This is mentioned in a Ralph Zumbro quote,

"One of the oddball things we discovered in RVN was that if you add a few left-handers to your point squad, it has a better chance of surviving an ambush because they habitually carry their weapons pointed to the right. Also a non smoking point man can SMELL fish-eaters....And somone who is color blind compensates by seeing more texture and can usually spot camouflage, especially day old dead foliage."

Yeah, it is quite severe a disadvantage for left-handers. This problem is overcome, however, in the FN F2000 and FN P90, in that the casings are ejected forwards and downwards, respectively.