ACOG vs SUSAT

[Harrod200]

With the ACOG replacing the SUSAT for the SA80 series, what is the difference between the two? I've heard that the ACOG can be somewhat flimsy, while the SUSAT is solid as a rock, and the SUSAT uses a Tritium illuminator and the ACOG electrical/fibre optic, but I don't really know what else is different about them.

[Repulse]

the SUSTAT was very british!

Apparently in daylight the SUSAT is best when the target has a low contrast background. Maybe the ACOG this is different? The SUSAT is filled with tritium gas that has a radioactive content of 0.22 curie, its only really a therat when its broken, im guessing the ACOG dont?

Found this article;

UK assault rifle to receive lighter, improved sight
Andrew White Jane's Land Forces Reporter
London

The UK armed forces' L85A2 (SA80A2) assault rifle is to undergo another transformation as the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) starts negotiations to replace the L9A1 weapon sight.

The UK MoD's Future Infantry Soldier Technology (FIST) programme office wants an "improved and lighter" system to replace the United Scientific Instruments L9A1 Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux (SUSAT), currently in use with the SA80A2.

Industry sources said the UK MoD favours the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) TA31RCO 4 x 32 sight, produced by US aiming systems specialist Trijicon. The deal could have a potential value of up to GBP200 million (USD357.8 million).

In 2000, the SUSAT was exempt from arms specialist Heckler & Koch's (H&K's) GBP92 million revamp of the SA80.

The UK MoD contracted H&K to modify some 200,000 SA80 assault rifles and L86 Light Support weapons, with improvements including a new hammer, cocking handle, gas plug and firing pin. Monthly deliveries to the UK MoD of 4,000 SA80A2s started in December 2001 and the contract is due for completion 2006.

Trijicon's Military Division manager, Shaun Rategan, said: "We cannot comment on quantities or type. The FIST programme has tested and evaluated our ACOG and conveyed an interest in future business."

ACOG is currently favoured by the US Special Operations Command, including Green Berets, US Navy sea, air and land (SEAL) commandos and US Army Rangers as well as the UK's special forces. Designed for use with the M16 series of assault rifles, it is seen as a very robust sight despite being 137 g lighter than the 417 g SUSAT.

Other features include dual illustrated reticle, enhanced adjuster caps and chevron reticle and crosshair. A deal could also include the purchase of simple scissor-action mounts.

Since H&K's improvement programme, the SA80A2 has had "isolated difficulties", according to a UK National Audit Office report in December 2003, although post-operational reports indicated a general acceptance that the SA80A2 is effective and reliable.

In 2005, Trijicon won a USD660 million contract to provide Rifle Combat Optics (RCO), a modified version of the ACOG, for the US Marine Corps' M16 assault rifles.

The deal initially comprised 104,000 scopes, worth USD610 each, with an additional option for the US government to buy a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes over the five-year contract period.

I liked the SUSAT!

[cplgangster]

i dont know why they are going to spend money on a new sight when the current one is working and hasnt got any noticable problems. The money should be used on more important things. Also it is very hard to let that gas out only way to do so is to brake the sight open (very hard i would imagine) and to unscrew something that has red paint that crumbles when tampered with.

[strima]

The SUSAT has been around for around 20 years and is becoming a bit dated. The gas has to be replaced every few years and the sight is heavy for what it actually does.

The new ACOG style sights have good day and night capability and apparently one also has the ability to accept a red dot for CQB which is where the SUSAT is lacking.

Also the view is restricted at the bottom of the sight which although still usable can get annoying when trying to aim down wards.

[jonjacob34]

i think the only reason the mod are issueing ACOG's to the sa80 is because of broken or unsalvagable susats. either way at least the MOD will stock a few for when the sa80 is put out of service in 2015, i'm more curious to know what the replacement of the sa80 will be, another bulp-up design or a more tryed and test weapon system, will the british made or get a tone of H&K 416 in..... still digging the sa80 though.

[Harrod200]

I think it's unlikely we'll get another British born-and-bred weapon; we simply don't have the weapons industry we used to. I'd personally hope it's another bullpup, rather than a long rifle, but that's simply because of my very heavy bias towards bullpups.

[[R-DEV]Undies]

The target out of service date for SA80 was 2020, but apparently may be moved to the right by 5 years. http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/8F4E1...01_may2008.pdf

[ChaosSound]

I personally prefer the ACOG over the SUSAT, I find the susat to be too distracting when aiming at long ranges, it tends to block the foreground too much.

[Messiah UK]

also note that the ACOG is picatinny standard, whilst the SUSAT has its own dove tail rail. When we eventually replace the SA80, rather have 200,000 sights that can be reused on the new weapon, instead of trying to retrofit it to a unique rail.

The ACOG retrofit doesn't remove the ability for the SA80 to use the SUSAT. They've simple slotted a cantilever rail onto the dove rail and the ACOG then sits on that (Good call if you think about it, as it removes the need to send 200,000 weapons to have the old rail removed and a picatinny added).

If you want to use SUSAT, you remove the cantilever and slot the SUSAT on. Curious to know if guys on the ground will be able to choose their preference, or if private sight purchases will be allowed.

[Sgt.North]

Originally Posted by Messiah UK

Curious to know if guys on the ground will be able to choose their preference, or if private sight purchases will be allowed.

That would be bad, If your in the shit, your weapon goes tits up, you can easily pick up an Oppo's weapon and be familiar with the sight (yes i know its not zero'd for you), but if your in the shit, the enemy will be close enough that it wont be that far out!

North.