F-117 NIGHT HAWK

[mammikoura]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]dunehunter

Hm, true, you do have a point. They might not be that useful fighting the insurgents now (though I'm pretty sure they have a faster response time), but those A-10s would probably have had severe trouble with the AA (as that one that made it back to base despite being nearly shot to bits illustrates)

of course the A-10's would have problems with anti-air. It's a CAS aircraft and wasn't designed to take out anti-air stations.

But you don't need a stealth aircraft to fight against anti-air, almost any aircraft is good enough. Sometimes non stealth might even be better, no way to fire a harm if the enemy radar isn't targeting you.

[M1126 Stryker]

Originally Posted by mammikoura

pretty much as effective as any other aircraft with air to ground weapons.

As for my general opinion about the f-117A, I don't really like it that much. An air to ground stealth aircraft that has been shot down by a pretty old anti-air system doesn't seem like it's that good at it's job. And it has already been taken out of service since new aircraft with better specs are already out there.

That incident had little to do with the stealth capabilities of the F-117A and more to do with poor mission planning, bad luck, and other factors. The SA-3s that were launched were not guided to the target by radar.

Anyway while it may not look like it the F-22A is said to actually be stealthier than the F-117A showing that stealth technology has advanced quite a bit.

[BloodBane611]

The F-117 was the first application of stealth tech to a mass production fighter. I would say it's a decent airframe, but given the capabilities of the technology when it was produced it's no wonder it needs to be replaced. It was a first foray, now we've learned a bit more and have something better.

[mammikoura]

Originally Posted by M1126 Stryker

That incident had little to do with the stealth capabilities of the F-117A and more to do with poor mission planning, bad luck, and other factors. The SA-3s that were launched were not guided to the target by radar.

how was it guided then?
And the idea of stealth is to make the aircraft undetectable to the enemy. No? If the plane was shot down it had to be detected. Right? So doesn't that mean that the stealth technology on the f-117A failed to do what it's designed to do?

Originally Posted by M1126 Stryker

Anyway while it may not look like it the F-22A is said to actually be stealthier than the F-117A showing that stealth technology has advanced quite a bit.

indeed it has. But if you look at the 2 aircraft I'd say that the f-22 looks a lot more stealthy. Compare:





would be better if the pic didn't have the landing gear but you can see the difference.

[SiN|ScarFace]

It served it's purpose in GW1 and it had a key role in taking out the command and control of the Iraqi army and air defense network that allowed conventional aircraft to bomb at will.

Why spend money to maintain an old niche weapon when there are better more capable aircraft in service, Raptor.

You don't need to be targeted by an FCR to fire and guide a HARM to it, it only has to be emitting, and being stealth is actually to your bennifit when doing SEAD/DEAD as if they know you are up there they won't turn on, and they know because of search radars. IF you are stealth, they won't even know they are potentially being hunted and you could even bait them with seemingly easy non shoot back at you targets, and when they turn on the FCR, the unseen stealth platform just took a shot at you with an ARM.

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by mammikoura

how was it guided then?
And the idea of stealth is to make the aircraft undetectable to the enemy. No? If the plane was shot down it had to be detected. Right? So doesn't that mean that the stealth technology on the f-117A failed to do what it's designed to do?

During Allied Force the Air Defenses would rarely use their FCRs to guide sams to targets, because there were always F-16s carrying HARMS just waiting for them to turn on, so they would set the missile to explode at a defined altitude and just fire them off visually or guessing based on heading speed and alt given by other forms of radar. Being the 117 went down at night, one would assume they got extremely lucky but the 117 was not actually tracked by the FCR and shot down. It's the same concept as shooting ducks with a shot gun.

[mammikoura]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

During Allied Force the Air Defenses would rarely use their FCRs to guide sams to targets, because there were always F-16s carrying HARMS just waiting for them to turn on, so they would set the missile to explode at a defined altitude and just fire them off visually or guessing based on heading speed and alt given by other forms of radar. Being the 117 went down at night, one would assume they got extremely lucky but the 117 was not actually tracked by the FCR and shot down. It's the same concept as shooting ducks with a shot gun.

So they just kinda.. had no idea that the aircraft was there and just shot a missile in the air and downed a f-117? Talk about luck.

[[R-MOD]Bob_Marley]

During Allied Force the Air Defenses would rarely use their FCRs to guide sams to targets, because there were always F-16s carrying HARMS just waiting for them to turn on, so they would set the missile to explode at a defined altitude and just fire them off visually or guessing based on heading speed and alt given by other forms of radar. Being the 117 went down at night, one would assume they got extremely lucky but the 117 was not actually tracked by the FCR and shot down. It's the same concept as shooting ducks with a shot gun.

The chap who shot it down disagrees Here

And also here

[[R-DEV]Eddie Baker]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Bob_Marley

The chap who shot it down disagrees Here

And also here

Colonel Zoltan Dani? What, did his parents read the Supervillain Baby Names Book?

[M1126 Stryker]

Well they actually spotted the aircraft before they started tossing SAMs up into the air. They probably had the help of some night vision devices and perhaps infrared tracking systems. Plus they had spotters everywhere.

Plus the mission planning got sloppy, using the same flight paths too often.

I would not trust everything Zoltan Dani says though some of it may be true. He has said some rather absurd things in the past I believe.