7.62 v 5.56

[[R-DEV]Katarn]

It still has significantly more muzzle energy than the 5.56x45NATO and with the more efficient firing systems of the FN SCAR, it should also have better accuracy.

[Lampshade111]

Making the 7.62x51mm NATO standard for our next assault rifle would defeat most of the advantages assault rifles provide at shorter ranges. Any thought of adopting the Russian 7.62x39mm is nonsense. There are far better choices including improved 5.56x45mm ammunition, 6.8x43mm SPC, and the rather new 6.5x42mm MPC. Even the Russians moved on to 5.45x39mm and the Chinese have their new 5.8x42mm ammo.

http://defensereview.com/modules.php...rticle&sid=970
http://www.sskindustries.com/6_5mpc.htm

[sakils2]

I love that H&K 416... Hmmh That gun is sexy

[$kelet0r]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Katarn

I can't believe no one mentioned the FN SCAR in response to the original poster. The FN SCAR is not significantly larger than any other Assault rifles, and the heavy version is chambered to 7.62x51NATO.

AND it can also use standard AK-style magazines and can also fire 7.62X39 M43 ammo.

The HK 416 has a much better chance of being successful than the FN SCAR simply because the HK weapon is just an M4 with a gas piston whereas the SCAR is a whole new weapon's system. When there is so little in terms of difference between them, the above is what will swing the 416 vote.

The .223 Rem. is not a weak round. It is performing poorly because the military keeps on chopping the length of the barrel and the type of ammunition that is used. Now troops mostly use M855, M193 is a better performer than M855. Another example of type of ammo differences is shown here.

5.56mm ammo is weak - it's illegal to shoot large game with it because it is so ineffective. The only thing that would make it more effective is to make it a hollowpoint which a) limits it's penetration even more and b) is evil and illegal. The British were on the right track with their 7mm round for the EM2 (which is ironic considering the push to adopt its modern brother the 6.8mm) but the American's screwed everyone in NATO by demanding 7.62mm battle rifle rounds. And then went to the other extreme when changing to 5.56mm. The hilarity never ends.

[Aljen]

Originally Posted by sakils2

I love that H&K 416... Hmmh That gun is sexy

Women should be sexy.
Weapons used in war should be reliable, damaging, sturdy, light and precise

[Expendable Grunt]

Originally Posted by Aljen

Weapons used in war should be cheap reliable, damaging, sturdy, light and precise

Fixed.

Pick two

[D_LaMz]

Originally Posted by $kelet0r

The HK 416 has a much better chance of being successful than the FN SCAR simply because the HK weapon is just an M4 with a gas piston whereas the SCAR is a whole new weapon's system. When there is so little in terms of difference between them, the above is what will swing the 416 vote.

Well there are two problems here. Yes, the 416 is a better platform but, HK does not have a factory in the US. HK is kinda anti-civilian about gun ownership and therefore will not build a factory in the US. On the other hand, FN has a factory here and is supporting civilian ownership of guns and actually brought out 2 new firearms to the market. There have even been rumors that a semi-auto SCAR is coming out. Why is it important to have a factory here and support the civilian market? Well, back in the '80s, SIG was going against Beretta for the new pistol contract. Well, Beretta won because of their factory was already here and ready for production. Civilian sales are great since if your product does not get the contract you can fall back to your civilian market to recoup losses.

Originally Posted by $kelet0r

5.56mm ammo is weak - it's illegal to shoot large game with it because it is so ineffective.

People have taken down white tail deer with it. Even though I use only .243 and up on deer.

[$kelet0r]

Originally Posted by D_LaMz

Well there are two problems here. Yes, the 416 is a better platform but, HK does not have a factory in the US. HK is kinda anti-civilian about gun ownership and therefore will not build a factory in the US. On the other hand, FN has a factory here and is supporting civilian ownership of guns and actually brought out 2 new firearms to the market. There have even been rumors that a semi-auto SCAR is coming out. Why is it important to have a factory here and support the civilian market? Well, back in the '80s, SIG was going against Beretta for the new pistol contract. Well, Beretta won because of their factory was already here and ready for production. Civilian sales are great since if your product does not get the contract you can fall back to your civilian market to recoup losses.

Granted that is an issue to the US - the benefits of having a congressman in your pocket when your factory is in his state. And only in American would civilian ownership of a firearm matter - what the military needs and what a civilian wants should not even logically remotely coincide.

Although the factory problem is solved if the US buys a licence for a producer of their choice from HK. Of course if they do go with the carbine model of either 416 or SCAR they may get a more reliable platform but ultimately the same lethality problems that the castrated barreled M4 has. Either up the calibre to something useful between 6 and 7mm or buy a bullpup, otherwise the American military just keeps repeating mistakes that cost lives.

[WNxLT7]

I think HK has a factory or testing centre in Ashburn, VA. They work along side with Blackwater in testing the newer weapons platforms.

As for lethality I dont know why you would think there is one with the current M4A1's in use by the US military. The M4A1's muzzle velocity is 905 m/s while the L85A2's is 945 m/s. But that's comparing a carbine to a rifle. An M16's muzzle velocity is 975 m/s. So obviously you're either confused or you are comparing 2 quite different weapons.

[D_LaMz]

Originally Posted by WNxLT7

I think HK has a factory or testing centre in Ashburn, VA. They work along side with Blackwater in testing the newer weapons platforms.

It's just their headquarters and they have a storage center for imported firearms in GA.