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Old 06-19-2012, 11:14 AM   #1
Michael_Denmark
Default Is F-35 the future system?

This post is an attempt to try and receive positive argumentation on the different issues related to the candidate F-35.




Since 2001 Denmark has also been involved in the F-35 project, as a level 3 partner. For a long time most voices here has been positive about the system, however, in recent years the negative voices has gained strength.

I sadly haven't been able to find enough counter-arguments to still believe the F-35 is the answer to the future. Arguments being able to counter the sadly not so known criticism deployed.

The two most negative voices I have been able to find, are Winslow T. Wheeler and Pierre Sprey. Lockheed Martin is the most positive I have been able to find.

Books and documents takes plenty of time to read, so instead a few short hours of videos.

Quote:
Video in five parts on the F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER

1/5 Pierre Sprey criticise the ability of the F-35 in a dogfight and address the dream of the radar blip
1/5 DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - YouTube


2/5 fancy fighter - F-16 bomb truck - close air support disaster - Three different airplanes
2/5 DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - YouTube


3/5 - Sharp reactions from the US senate
3/5 DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - YouTube


4/5 - Australian reactions from the exercise Pacific Vision
4/5 DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - YouTube


5/5 Summing up the points of the criticism and a short peak into the US civilian-military economy
5/5 DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - YouTube

Quote:
F-35 Politics of Procurement
A video made by a former Canadian soldier asking questions about the F-35.
F-35: The Politics of Procurement - YouTube

Quote:
An interview with Winslow Wheeler, who is not a completely unknown voice of criticism within the Pentagon.

Only in the very last part of the video does he talk about the F-35, however, the entire video is interesting in the context of any military program as the F-35.

Q&A with Winslow Wheeler - CPAC
Q&A with Winslow Wheeler - C-SPAN Video Library


Quote:
Few of my own questions

1. Dogfight.
Is the dogfight dead or not? I'm thinking in terms of air-war between equal opponents.


2. Transponder Technology (Friend or Foe Transponder).
Is this technology 100% safe against any equal opponent?


3. Multirole or not.
Is the multi-role military aircraft the right direction for any future winner air force?


4. Beyond visual range.
Is this technology 100% safe against any competent opponent?


5. CAS.
Is the F-35 too fast to be an effective CAS?


6. Old-minded thinking.
Is the criticism an expression of old minded thinking, not understanding the future of air war?

Long post, sorry.




Quote:
Edit:

My motivation for making this thread, was the in my opinion, rather less optimistic point if view, the latest report from Government Accountability Office (GAO) posted this June.

Also, just a short note, apparently from today, 29th of June, it seems that Eurofighter wants to try and get into the Danish fighter jet competition again. Perhaps the report from GAO has something to do with this?

We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.
Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven.

Tomorrow...



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Last edited by Michael_Denmark; 06-29-2012 at 01:46 PM.. Reason: misspelling and comments
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:04 PM   #2
Valleyforge3946

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Yes and no IMHO. At what it's mean to replace... aging harrier fleet, older non-essential carrier based AC (aircraft) and sadly the F-16. Yes. Problem is, when it come to an Air-to-air combat situation, the F-35 really is a dog. It's a fast brick designed to attack ground targets (supposedly) and assumes Air superiority has been achieved. If it came up against the latest Mig's, flankers, Pak-10... sit back and watch F-35 crash and burn. It's beset by problems at the moment. especially the carrier variant... Arresting hook doesn't work. -_- Freaking catobar. We really need a STOBAR system.
When it comes down to Air superiority, i'm putting my money on the F-22... hope the F-22 won't decide to starve his pilot of oxygen.
Search the forums, you can find everything i referenced in this section.
aroooo the dog has arrived!!!!

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Old 06-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #3
karambaitos

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleyforge3946 View Post
It's a fast brick
its not really fast, and i bet a brick can out turn it, its more of a flying bucket, that has ipads in the cockpit

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, but the gun sure helps.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #4
Valleyforge3946

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

It's a repeat of F-4 and F-105.. *yawn* Done with that.

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Old 06-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #5
Michael_Denmark
Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Well, hopefully the criticism can be countered with some solid step by step argumentation.

We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.
Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven.

Tomorrow...



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Old 06-19-2012, 04:58 PM   #6
The Iron Dreamer

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Denmark View Post
Well, hopefully the criticism can be countered with some solid step by step argumentation.
They just need to find a nice little war for it....
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:19 PM   #7
Valleyforge3946

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Dreamer View Post
They just need to find a nice little war for it....
BB gun backyard war.

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Old 06-19-2012, 06:24 PM   #8
Michael_Denmark
Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Question 2 was misspelled. My bad. Corrected.

Quote:
2. Transponder Technology (Friend or Foe Transponder).
Is this technology 100% safe against any equal opponent?

In regard to the political part, that's not really the question here, but more if this system, this candidate is able to live up to the expectations. Cause war or no war, the military force in any nation using the F-35, will be depended on it for a long time to come.

We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.
Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven.

Tomorrow...



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Last edited by Michael_Denmark; 06-20-2012 at 11:31 AM..
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:55 PM   #9
mangeface
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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleyforge3946 View Post
BB gun backyard war.
I lol'd.

I see the high need for the F-35B. The Harrier is older than dirt and needs to be retired...NOW. It's usage from an LHD or similar carrier is worthless. Especially the LHD. It can only take off with 1500lbs. of ordnance. So...2 bombs at most. As a replacement for other aircraft, not so much. The rest of the F/A-18 Hornet fleet needs to be replaced with F/A-18E/Fs. I don't feel the F-35A is much of a replacement to the F-16, and it sure as hell isn't even close to a replacement for the A-10C. The B-1B would be better for that role. Mount 4 GAU-8s on it and you have a beast.


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Old 06-20-2012, 01:03 AM   #10
The Iron Dreamer

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Default Re: Is F-35 the future system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangeface View Post
The B-1B would be better for that role. Mount 4 GAU-8s on it and you have a beast.


Oh dear... The amount of win in that is just so... much.
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