David Gray warns on torture music

[Hotrod525]

Well listen Celine Dion at 120Db long enought will surely make cry the tuffest men. lol.

[Blackie]

Originally Posted by Hotrod525

Well listen Celine Dion at 120Db long enought will surely make cry the tuffest men. lol.

LOOKING @ Celine Dion makes me cry





Why would this thread be locked ? Nobody is being rude or aggressive....



Its a good topic and needs to evolve beyond "music played at guantanamo."




You may be getting only 5% of oil NOW !! This was future planning... This was a stratigic move to safguard there future, its had sweet FA to do with human rights or the moral high ground... DO not forget that.

Whos trillions got spent and where did those trillions go ?


And its spelt Iraq not Irak.. god damn at LEAST spell there name right in your crusade to HELP the "irakies"

Most Americasn dont give a F about the Iraqi/ Afghan people, even the "African" americans dont give a F about Africans...

Everything ive learnt about USA foreign policy screams to me its ONLY about whats good for USA, its all stratigic and never humanitarian... even when its humanitarian that is only for propaganda purposes.. Its used as a tool, has been in AFrica for decades. Just look at the Jamacian economy and you will see what the USA "humanitarian" effort has created....

F** the World bank F*** IMF

watch a doc called Life an Debt
YouTube - Life and debt - trailer

THats my opinion, the average American people are too busy eating Mc Deez and watchin baseball, too busy anesthetized to see whats really going off on this planet..


(im not only having a go at America btw, just they are still all powerfull, China could be FAR worse for this planet)

[WNxKenwayy]

Show me any military conflict in recent times that you would have viewed as humanitarian. Also please explain the dozens of missions currently taking place in the African continent, at great cost to the US and getting no benefit in return. Likewise explain the Eastern European missions.

Tell me why my unit was strictly forbidden from defending the Bayji Oil Refinery (largest in Iraq and one of the largest in the whole Middle East) and instead having to leave it to the Iraqi's? Explain why the US let the Iraqi's run that refinery, operating at approx 60% efficiency, compared to US refineries who usually operate at 95%. Also, when Baghdad was having an emergency fuel shortage, and a several dozen truck convey was dispatched from the BOR, why the US didn't control the convey, we had to let the Iraqi's do it, and consequently 14 trucks were blown up en route.


Next, in reference to the comment that 'torture' gives you false positives. Is the amount of false answer's worth the amount of correct information? What is the ratio? If even a remote possibility exist that torture could save lives, would you simply not do it? How would you get information from the suspects, given the time sensitive nature of much information?

I believe requiring the suspects to be tried by US standards of law are wrong, because they were taken prisoner in countries other than the US, who do not have nearly the sophisticated evidence gathering capabilities. Necessary witnesses will also not be able to respond because they may be either still deployed, members of sensitive units, discharged from the military forces already, or service members of foreign countries whom we cannot compel to appear.

[WNxKenwayy]

interwebs.

[Flanker15]

More epic fail from the US no surprises there.
Can't believe people still think torture is alright, it's not ok no matter what. Firstly it don't work, secondly even if you got a truthful confession from it you can't use it as evidence so it's useless, thirdly it drops the US down to the same level as the terrorists.

[Blackie]

Originally Posted by WNxKenwayy

interwebs.

I can guarantee you that those humanaterian efforts are miniscule compared to what COULD be done to achieve great effect. ITs window dressing.

Like I said im not anti America, im about Truth. The whole world is damn near crazy in my opinion, just America is top dog and has been for a while now. World cannot support every human being living the lifestlye of the average American...

Im sure tourture is affective, thats why there doing it, but that doesnt make it the right choice in the big picture of things....


anyways, you might be interested in this Behold A Pale Horse ...

Behold A Pale Horse - Google Video

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Torture doesn't work.
Because the French failed at it in Algeria and Indochina ?
The witch trials don't count, as they were not building a base of data from which to fight a war.
If I torture you and you just make stuff up to get it to stop, won't I realize this when I compare your information to other sources ?

Most of what constitutes " torture " in Gitmo is about equal to what happens in fraternities all across the nation every year, not to mention basic training in the Army/ Marines.
We won't even get into how the elite units are treated during their training.

It is a far cry from the Iron Maiden, thumbscrews and the rack.

I'm sure there are people in Club Gitmo that don't belong there, and I'm also sure few if any of them have been "tortured".
Give the military some credit, if some guy says he is a sheepherder who lived near KSM and keeps saying that and all his details match that story, then he probably won't get tortured.
But even at that, mistakes will happen, there will be glory/promotion hungry officers who will cut corners, just like there are people who break the rules in any given profession.

True, people who cut corners in law enforcement and military operations can absolutely destroy Innocent lives and we should do everything possible to minimize those mistakes and punish those who knowingly cross the line.

But Iraq was invaded and Al Queda fought and mostly defeated there.
The attention shifts to Afghanistan now but without a belligerent nation in the region to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

If forcing someone to listen to loud music will bring the boys back home, then so be it.
I don't wish ill on the innocent from any land but at least I am honest enough to say that if some one has to die by mistake, I would rather it not be an American.

[Flanker15]

What ever happened to being the good guys, the defenders of honor and decency?
Why can't we say so some of our soldiers died, atleast we can go to sleep knowing we didn't do anything immoral and the world doesn't hate us.

Good guys don't torture people.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

As everyone is so fond of pointing out, we never were the "good" guys.
Just a little bit better than our parent countries.
If you think "coercive methods" are not used in Europe behind closed doors you are fooling yourselves.
BTW... the US Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the terrorists so we aren't ALL bad now are we ?
The system is still creaking along, imperfect but operational.

[gclark03]

Originally Posted by WNxKenwayy

Show me any military conflict in recent times that you would have viewed as humanitarian. Also please explain the dozens of missions currently taking place in the African continent, at great cost to the US and getting no benefit in return. Likewise explain the Eastern European missions.

Tell me why my unit was strictly forbidden from defending the Bayji Oil Refinery (largest in Iraq and one of the largest in the whole Middle East) and instead having to leave it to the Iraqi's? Explain why the US let the Iraqi's run that refinery, operating at approx 60% efficiency, compared to US refineries who usually operate at 95%. Also, when Baghdad was having an emergency fuel shortage, and a several dozen truck convey was dispatched from the BOR, why the US didn't control the convey, we had to let the Iraqi's do it, and consequently 14 trucks were blown up en route.


Next, in reference to the comment that 'torture' gives you false positives. Is the amount of false answer's worth the amount of correct information? What is the ratio? If even a remote possibility exist that torture could save lives, would you simply not do it? How would you get information from the suspects, given the time sensitive nature of much information?

I believe requiring the suspects to be tried by US standards of law are wrong, because they were taken prisoner in countries other than the US, who do not have nearly the sophisticated evidence gathering capabilities. Necessary witnesses will also not be able to respond because they may be either still deployed, members of sensitive units, discharged from the military forces already, or service members of foreign countries whom we cannot compel to appear.

This is another example of US blunders in the chain of command. For example, the only reason the Bay of Pigs invasion failed was because President Kennedy removed the troops' air support.