The power of guns for sucide

[[R-DEV]Nickbond592]

Originally Posted by Hotrod525

Where did you leave ? Swissland ? lol Seriously i cant imagine police officer unarmed.

are you serious

you have a lot to learn regarding the world being different from where you live..

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Originally Posted by Drake

Thats kinda sad Kenway. If you need a gun to feel safe, your not safe, even if you have the gun...
In my country, the police dont carry guns. (they might have one in the car)

Ppl jump off bridges or crash their car at high speeds to commit suicide around here.

Can you explain that ?
How can you judge how safe I am ?
With a philosophical argument against an armed citizenry ?
If you live someplace the police don't carry guns, more power to you but that isn't the reality in the US.
I would rather have some bloke mess up the walls in his own house with his brain matter than jump onto me or crash into my car trying to end his/her life.

I'm sure Masaq has stats to prove his point but cops carry guns and by all reports suffer from mental distress as much if not more than the general public and they aren't dropping like flys because of easy access to a firearm.

[Sizum85]

well in Holland its illegal to carry guns unless you have a license and we have lower crime rates then the US,however that can also be due to the fact that there is a lot more of poverty in the US,or it can be the combination of guns and poverty

[georgehu2007]

well, Holland is more homogeneous than the US. Japan, for example, attributes its homogeneous population for its low crime rate.

[TheOldDog]

Originally Posted by WNxKenwayy

The gun rights argument boils down to this. Until I am given a 100% guarantee to be free from the effects of crime and oppressive police and government institutions, my right to protect me and mine will trump all others.

The right inferred from a 200 year old parchment conceived around the time of the blunderbuss and flintlock musket when drive by shootings were done from a horse and cart... yea... I see... it makes perfect sense in Bizzaroworld.

You want 100% guarantees? Just ask God. Last time I checked God is the only one who can give that level of service assurance. In the meantime you live in the real world, not in a fantasy land that gives you the candy you want just because you feel you have a justifiable right to it because reality does not match your personal ideals.

Limp. People will champion whatever allows them to possess what they want or feel they need but it does not magic away the effects of possessing it either on themselves or for others.

Guns make you safer. Yea.. in some cases of course they do. If they worked like antibiotics there would be no problem would there? But they can be as much a disease as they are a cure because they are a dual use tool.

So, on the whole, do you think America is a more peaceful society or less because of guns, or do you think the question is irrelevant because personal rights trump that?

Personally I think the best reason to have a gun is the chance someone else has one, someone who could wish you harm. Trouble is even a grade school kid could see a closed cycle in that where the cure feeds the disease.

[SiN|ScarFace]

Is the gun the reason for the corruption of society on all levels? You know it isn't so that means other things, things that seem much more benign, and progressive(by todays standards) are causing it, and they cause civilization to be more bizzar and less safe. Firearms will never go away, and because of that they will always be for sale illegally, taking them from law abiding people just adds more people to the list of vulnerable or makes good people criminals.

The world isn't getting any nicer, for reasons most people could give a crap about and most contribute to it, and firearms do keep or at least let people feel more safe and do save lives and stop crime. 200 year old paper can, and does have relevance today, truth and wisdom are timeless, things written thousands of years ago can tell us things we should already know and practice, but that isn't the case or we wouldn't be so amazed that such words were written down so long ago; that is why they are written on paper and saved, to remind people who would so easily forget.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I wonder how relevant that 200 year old paper is when it comes to the other amendments ?
Useless when it is something you don't like, but untouchable when it is something you do like.
But that is not unusual now is it ?

What I haven't seen mentioned is that the gun crime stats that are often quoted as reason why we should ban guns altogether never mention how many of those gun deaths are due to suicide.
While I'm sure it is true that some people who killed themselves or in today's lingo became an hero, would not have followed through with the impulse if the weapon had not been available, we just don't know.
Chances are, if they didn't have a gun then they would have made a half hearted attempt with pills and maybe end up really sick, but not dead.

Guns certainly don't MAKE you commit suicide anymore than they MAKE carjack or a rob a liquor store.
Those are choices you make for yourself and just because some teen can not handle the realities of life, does not mean the whole country should operate on that standard.

[[R-DEV]Katarn]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Guns certainly don't MAKE you commit suicide anymore than they MAKE carjack or a rob a liquor store.

Easy access to a quick, painless, and instant death do. And guns provide that.

[TheOldDog]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

I wonder how relevant that 200 year old paper is when it comes to the other amendments ?

Be that question real or rhetorical you should inherently deduct that if the question is never asked anew the last answer will always be held as true, be it 200 years old or 2000. People can say 'truth and wisdom are timeless' and it sounds so neat... so seductive... so sure... but it does not mean Amun-Ra still powers the Sun today though he apparently did through his powers as a God thousands of years ago over Egypt.

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Useless when it is something you don't like, but untouchable when it is something you do like.
But that is not unusual now is it ?

No, its not, but there is a difference between belief and religious zeal. A difference between defense of opinion through reason and debate and Immutable Truth.

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

What I haven't seen mentioned is that the gun crime stats that are often quoted as reason why we should ban guns altogether never mention how many of those gun deaths are due to suicide.

Not true. Remember the old thread you created a few weeks ago, 'All Hope Is Not Lost'? I put murder stats gun Vs other forms (knife/blunt/etc) in various countries worldwide in that thread. Sure as shite suicide is NOT murder so those two things are not getting muddled up.

You posted in that thread. As I recall I was more or less shot down on the issue that comparing the US to other countries was a waste of time, because other countries had different cultures to the US and smaller populations and therefore comparisons drawn from the stats were not relevant. I never bothered to reply to that at the time because it was too much like a CASE CLOSED stamp.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

So, let me ask you this as I'm not really sure what you are saying.
The US constitution is worthless because it is old ?
Or the parts you think are not proper are worthless because they are old ?
Who cares about Amon Ra or Richard Nixon for that matter ?
Here and now we have guns and we have laws about guns and the binding document behind those laws is a 232 year old piece of paper.
It is not a historical artifact like a mummy or a pyramid, it the basis for law in the United States, a living, breathing country so I fail to see how comparing it to ancient civilizations has any bearing at all.

You may have posted stats that delineate between murder and suicide but that is not how the subject is presented in sound bytes now is it ?
No, they just tell you x number of kids were killed last year by guns and never mention the percentages, because then it would seem more like a mental health crisis than one that could be solved with stricter gun laws.

You honestly believe that you can make a meaningful comparison of the US to any one European country ?
I don't believe that to be true but you are more than welcome to make the attempt because only the MODs can stamp a thread CLOSED.