The idea of Global Warming and other Hype

[Liquid_Cow]

I'm starting this thread to side track a hijack in the Warfare in the Post-Petrolium world thread.

In that thread the topic of why we must move on beyond petrolium has come up in the context of global warming and greenhouse gasses.

I would like to keep this thread free of flames and speculation. If you are going to participate please do not start spouting dogma without support.

I am a man-made global warming sceptic. I do not doubt there is global warming, heck 15,000 years ago the place where I sit today was covered with 5 miles of ice, so w/o global warming I would not be able to live where I am, and there would be a lot fewer humans on earth. I studied this subject in college and have a degree in Enviromental Sciences. I was a believer, back in the 80's when I was young and easily impressible I fell hook line and sinker for Global Warming, then I started to learn and doubt what I was being told as "fact." I do think Humans are messing earth up, primarily through slow poisons, but I do not believe the hype about Global Warming. The earth's temp is not static, and anyone who believe we live at the "perfect" temperature right now is fooling themselves. In this dynamic world things change constantly, if it didn't we'd be fighting dinosaurs for living space right now.

I challenge global warming supporters to prove that man-made influences are the primary driver of climate change. I doubt it, we are a flea of the dog's ass when it comes to effecting the earth (BTW, the Sun is the biggest influence on the earth's climate IMHO and many others.

Furthermore, I believe that those who push the Global Warming agenda, such as Al Gore, as actually post communism communist in that they are seeking to unseat the US and Western Europe as the predominate power in the world. They seek to punish industrial nations which set the standard of living for the whole world (ask yourself why Koyoto does not put restrictions on China, a communist country that will out pollute the US in the next 3 years). I think Global Warming is a swindle, bad science, and just wrong.

Your turn.

[Liquid_Cow]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Well I am not a kool-aid drinker on global warming but I am a weirdo who reads a lot of Sci Fi and I can add so I think sooner or later global warming as caused by man or nature will be an issue we need to deal with.
It is too bad that when it becomes a threat people will ignore it because Gore was the boy who cried wolf.

There are many members of the IPCC, including several major GW supporters who say the same thing AD&A, that Gore is making mountains out of mole hills and is ruining the case by spouting hyperbole and cryign wolf.

[Dr2B Rudd]

al gore's nobel prize makes a mockery of the award. A excellent book to read for this is 'State of Fear' by Michael Crichton, the ending sucks but it is correctly referenced to scientific journals. It highlights the bias of certain research promoting the global warming THEORY (i.e. not fact) and gives opposing research a chance to shine. Global warming is neither global nor proven.

But still, we know fossil fuels are finite and should be conserved; or if you are a western country without ur own oil supplies it is a good idea to switch to another fuel for independence.

according to the above book (IIRC) nature produced 360million tones of CO2 per year, we produce around 35. (have to check those figures, but they are approx right). If we were serious about global warming we'd all be vegetarians and destroy all the termite (termites produce loads of methane)

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Cow

...
I would like to keep this thread free of flames and speculation. If you are going to participate please do not start spouting dogma without support.
...

This thread is moved to the Political debate section. Where people will be asked to post their views based on reliable facts (which you will link too) "Gut feelings" alone will not be welcome.

Otherwise this will just end up being a rambling, with both sides just spouting gibberish like in kindergarten.

So it depends on all of you to make this a healthy and constructive discussion. Otherwise warning points and lockage will follow.

Happy debating

[Liquid_Cow]

Thank you for the move Saobh.

Rudd, I just love the fact that Al Gore beat out Irena Sendlerowa, a 98 year old grandmother who risked his life to save 2500 Jewish children from the Nazi's (often called the woman Shindler), Al deserved the award so much more, after all he's really sticking his neck out for Global Warming. Oh, BTW she died last month so she'll never actually get her award, thanks Al and congrats.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

They gave the prize to Arafat, after that it was worthless and so Gore deserves a worthless prize.
But you aren't going to reverse this because as that video mentions, there are many people who absolutely hate the modern world and this gives them their outlet, an holy and sacred cause for which they can do wrong in the service of.
Watch for terrorist acts from them to grow in frequency and severity.

[Begbie]

Kissinger got one too much earlier. So it was worthless way before Arafat, and probably way before kissinger too.

[Defiyur]

I really don't know enough or have done enough research about GW to know one way or another who is right. I've heard most the claims by both sides. But to me it doesn't matter much because even if man is not the cause of GW does not mean that we shouldn't (for other important) reasons be seeking solutions to our and the worlds pollution problems. I see it more from a health hazard perspective than anything else. I don't enjoy breathing in smog and who knows how many assorted carcinogenic chemicals every single day of my life. The only time the air is clean is after a rain storm or after a wind storm (santa anas) both of which are extremely rare or brief in my area. We could (if the will was there) have basically clean energy by now such as solar, geo thermal, wind, water (hydro electic) etc etc thus making the GW issue moot since we'd be doing everything in our power to mimimize our effect on the planet. The tech is here...the will is not.

[gclark03]

Capitalism has jumped all over the concept of global warming in a heartbeat. Have you ever asked yourself why EVERYTHING these days has to be 'green' to be 'in'? Have you asked yourself why everything that's 'in' is made of that 80% recycled, cheap-looking paper or cardboard and painted in certain ways to look more 'environmentally friendly'?

Just as with any fad, the major companies have started to cater to these hyper-environmentalists, and I'm sure it's paid off wonderfully, but the only problem is that we now entrust the health of the environment with the same conglomerates that have unknowingly polluted it for the sake of money.

[com_kieffer]

global arming soesn't exist ? not in my world take for instance the earth and environment page from scientif american's website : Earth and Environment news from Scientific American

half the articles mention global warming as a fact, a prooved fact that no longer needs to be proved. Now scientific american is a "good" scientific newspaper, precise and exact so if nobody is trying to prove global warming as a fact anymore that probably means that the evidence goes in favor of global warming beeing true.

The global increase of temperatures is not purely the coincidence of a solar cycle as it has been shown at numerous occasions that the increase in temperatures is way faster that anything observed until now.

Who says CO2 is responsible ?
History, take the cretacean extinction, when dinosaures went extinct. Atfirst the temperature went down because of the dust in the atmosphere but as the dust finned, the CO2 produce by the volcanic activity in the decan region (the major cause of the dinosaures extinction) increased the temperature and killed the species that had survived the cold.

so i guees CO2 is guilty