Cry havoc, and loose the dogs of war...

[Kruder]

Originally Posted by ZZEZ

I'm not in denial, there will be an Israeli or US raid on Iran because their president insists on making statements like wiping Israel off the map while developing nuclear capability, how is that not going to cause suspicion to a nation that lost 1/3 of its people during WW2?
I'm doubtful that Turkey didn't know that Israel was going to have airplanes there, if I may remind you - during the Israeli raid on the Iraqi reactor the Syrians were informed that airplanes will be crossing their airspace, beside thats information that is not available to the public yet and its all speculations, your government in my opinion won't dare to saying no as it very much enjoys the money that comes out of Israeli tourists in Turkey.


What does the Hariri assassination and Syria pulling out of Lebanon has anything to do with that 'test'?that 'test' is a conspiracy theory and not a single side has confirmed that its the real deal.

AFAIK IDF jets entered our airspace while taking evasive action,in other words they did not plan to do so...

Hariri part that has something to do with possible Iran operation...After assasination Syria had to pull out of Lebanon
Syria=Ally of IRan,supporter of Hezbollah.Wiping Syria+Hezbollah out of Syria=securing ISrael's northern border=no more katyusha salvos from S.Lebanon into Israel less retaliation options for Iran+Syria...

P.S:We dont know anything,all we can is speculate about what happened and what migh happen in near future,nothing is wrong with that and that test theory seems OK for me.

P.S 2:We have more Arabic/Persian visitors since 2 years.Because they are having difficulties getting EU+US visa and they spend money like shit,unlike Israel citizens

P.S 3:Why call for lock,its a civilized debate so far...Keep it coming.

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by -=TB=-ante9383

But again, I call for a LOCK!

And I raise, saying that this discussion is still on topic and civil.

But you can otherwise PM a R-Mod about this, or you could just avoid this thread if it displeases you

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

Originally Posted by *2Recon*

Field testing, really? Thats not something you hear every day, want to explain a little?

The Russians in previous Israeli-Arab wars supplied the Arabs with Russian equipment in order to test its effectiveness versus the Israeli army which is equipped with American hardware.
Now this is once again becoming a reality, Russia is supplying Iran and Syria with their latest equipment - and some of that equipment goes to terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, the war 1 year ago Hezbollah was armed with Russian anti-tank missiles that they got off Syria - they bought it off Russia.

[-=TB=-ante9383]

edit: order of posts

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

Originally Posted by Kruder

AFAIK IDF jets entered our airspace while taking evasive action,in other words they did not plan to do so...

They could have done it to make it easier on the Turkish government to say that they did not agree with it, I find it hard to believe that the Turkish air force couldn't stop IAF airplanes if they wanted.

Hariri part that has something to do with possible Iran operation...After assasination Syria had to pull out of Lebanon
Syria=Ally of IRan,supporter of Hezbollah.Wiping Syria+Hezbollah out of Syria=securing ISrael's northern border=no more katyusha salvos from S.Lebanon into Israel less retaliation options for Iran+Syria...

Hariri was anti-Syria, Syria assassinated him because he was trying to lead Lebanon to break away from Syria which - pissed Hasad off.

P.S 2:We have more Arabic/Persian visitors since 2 years.Because they are having difficulties getting EU+US visa and they spend money like shit,unlike Israel citizens

I don't see any Turkish visitors here

[-=TB=-ante9383]

Fair enough, I retract my earlier call for a lock.

I was merely trying to keep the peace by stopping nationalist drones spewing crap all over the place. People, statements like "I stand by my nation, right or wrong" don't do much to reflect how intelligent you really are. Loving one's nation (simple definition of patriotism) is not the same as supporting it's government's course of action when it is clearly a) morally wrong b) in violation of international law c) totally obvious it is taken for utterly egoistic reasons like securing it's energy supplies for the next 25 years.

Or for the simple minded: love thy troops, but do not send them in harms way and end up murdering thousands upon thousands of civilians by direct/indirect action.

Finally, "I stand by my nation, right or wrong" implies you are a mindless follower. Putting many like you in the context of Germany in the year 1933, now imagine what would have been the outcome.

That's right, Nazi terror. And it did happen, in large part because otherwise good people stood by like mindless sheep and even supported the criminals in power in tearing Europe apart. It came about because too many "stood by their nation, right or wrong".

Peace out, and try to sound a bit more intelligent in your posts to follow mine.

[Kruder]

Originally Posted by ZZEZ

I don't see any Turkish visitors here

We have everything here,what else Israel can give a TR tourist?

Btw i'd like to visit both Israel and Iran sometime and bitchslap both of your extremists.

[The_motivator]

Hmm.

...evidence suggests that Israeli officials must have known that their assumption regarding the absence of civilians in southern Lebanon was erroneous.

(from the links from 2recon)

If Canada said to the northwestern part of NY.. "GTFO if you're a civvie, we're blowing shit up".... guess what? I'd get the hell out of here. The US Military told the residents of Fallujah that the shit was gonna hit the fan. Then they went in, and blew shit up... No big surprise to the residents...

“Israel’s treatment of all parts of Hezbollah as legitimate military targets flies in the face of international legal standards and sets a dangerous precedent,” Roth said. “To accept the argument that any part of Hezbollah can be targeted because it aids the military effort would be to accept that all Israeli institutions that aid the IDF can be targeted. The end result would be a weakening of the protection of civilians.”

Such as the intentional creation of two-staged IEDs/bombs... You know.. those pesky ones that blow up just as EMS are slated to arrive... or simply two suicide bombers used to the same effect... or :

Mar 31, 2002 - An MDA paramedic was very seriously injured along with three other people at 17:00 Sunday afternoon in a suicide bombing at the emergency medical center in Efrat, in the Gush Etzion bloc south of Jerusalem.

And now I know I'm going to step on atleast one person's toes... but I can condemn my professor's actions in class. I can condemn my roommate's offensive odors. I could condemn them all day long. If they're strong willed, they won't give a damn. Wandering that HRW site... Everyone's condemning, but no one seems to have authority to take action. So why listen to the organization? (See: United Nations) Unless country X is pushed to action or it's already in their best interest, chances are they won't.

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

The_motivator thats seriously going offtopic but I'll bite

“Israel’s treatment of all parts of Hezbollah as legitimate military targets flies in the face of international legal standards and sets a dangerous precedent,” Roth said. “To accept the argument that any part of Hezbollah can be targeted because it aids the military effort would be to accept that all Israeli institutions that aid the IDF can be targeted. The end result would be a weakening of the protection of civilians.”

Theres however a very fundamental difference between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel is a country - Hezbollah isn't.

[The_motivator]

Originally Posted by ZZEZ

The_motivator thats seriously going offtopic but I'll bite


Theres however a very fundamental difference between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel is a country - Hezbollah isn't.

Which means it's permissable? In that case, I'll let my buddy know he can go to France and waste civvies because of France's historical treatment and derision of Americans... He should be able to do it because he's not a country... right?

It wasn't going off topic, as I was attacking a source that was mentioned. Also, as creator of this thread, I have the inherent right to have bouts of ADHD.