Cry havoc, and loose the dogs of war...

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

Kruder, the government in Israel changes nearly every 2 years - you can't say its aggressive.
I count 4 prime ministers in the last 6 years, all of them were aggressive?

If you are not aware, there is no 'peace' between Israel and Syria, they are technically in war - there wasn't even a ceasefire treaty that was signed, the IAF is free to fly over Syria because they are in a state of war, I would like to remind you that the Syrian president for the last year has been speaking about returning the Golan to Syria, through peace or war.

No Israel took action against Hamas after that picnic incident,i forgot the name but Israel was conducting an operation in Gazza(citiation needed) before Hezbollah's raid,HEzb. raid was a retaliation.

The 'raid' was not a retaliation, an operation that they did can't be planned in two weeks - if you look back at Nassralas's statements in his speeches he kept saying that he will kidnap IDF soldiers.
The 'operation' that Israel was conducting in Gaza was to return Gilad Shalit, the soldier that Hamas kidnapped few weeks before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit

I really don't get it, if Israel would have ambushed a Turkish patrol patrolling your boarder, killing 6 soldiers and kidnapping 2 while being inside your country..you wouldn't do anything?you would just 'let it pass'?

[Kruder]

Your goverment was looking for an excuse to wipe Hezbollah from north of its borders,and that excuse was the raid...

Btw i am not trying to imply that Hezbollah defended the weak or something like that,its all about politics they did the raid to gain much more popularity amongst muslims countries and to deliver the message to muslim communities that Hezbollah(Shites) are the defenders of Islam, not the puppet/satelite arab countries- hence the almost nonexistant protests against Israel (except Turkey) during last summer...

And about border patrols being raided,we are already having from time to time our troops killed by PKK (seperatist kurdish terrorist org.),their camps are just south of our borders, in Barzani territory but we cant bomb or conduct operations to the camps so far,cos US does not give us the go and we cant a classical doublestandart of Imperialism,

P.S:My questions still stands,you have vioalated 2 not 1 countries airspace,you dont respond to these and you know better than me these violations are footsteps of upcoming Iran war,check events of past 3 years,Hariri assanition ;result Syria pulls its troops out of Lebanon,S.Lebanon war;hezbollah trying to be wept out of Lebanon now this dangerous syrian airdefence system test...

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

P.S:My questions still stands,you have vioalated 2 not 1 countries airspace,you dont respond to these and you know better than me these violations are footsteps of upcoming Iran war

I'm not in denial, there will be an Israeli or US raid on Iran because their president insists on making statements like wiping Israel off the map while developing nuclear capability, how is that not going to cause suspicion to a nation that lost 1/3 of its people during WW2?
I'm doubtful that Turkey didn't know that Israel was going to have airplanes there, if I may remind you - during the Israeli raid on the Iraqi reactor the Syrians were informed that airplanes will be crossing their airspace, beside thats information that is not available to the public yet and its all speculations, your government in my opinion won't dare to saying no as it very much enjoys the money that comes out of Israeli tourists in Turkey.

,check events of past 3 years,Hariri assanition ;result Syria pulls its troops out of Lebanon,S.Lebanon war;hezbollah trying to be wept out of Lebanon now this dangerous syrian airdefence system test...

What does the Hariri assassination and Syria pulling out of Lebanon has anything to do with that 'test'?that 'test' is a conspiracy theory and not a single side has confirmed that its the real deal.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Originally Posted by Kruder

And about border patrols being raided,we are already having from time to time our troops killed by PKK (seperatist kurdish terrorist org.),their camps are just south of our borders, in Barzani territory but we cant bomb or conduct operations to the camps so far,cos US does not give us the go and we cant a classical doublestandart of Imperialism,

...

Yeah, 3 Billion a year helps you keep a non classical imperial double standard as well.

But notice the salient detail in all of this.
The Russians are again field testing their merchandise with Arab lives, but you call us the great satan ?

[-=TB=-ante9383]

People, we all think we're very well informed don't we? Well, consider the following possibility: we don't know shit.

Kruder, IDF jets do not "violate" Turkish airspace, I can assure you of that.
For every such intrusion into another sovereign country's airspace, an agreement between the two military administration is made.
Think about it, I know you will realise it's only logical - just imagine all the things the public is never informed about. Turkish radar will pick up IDF jet signatures way before they're even close to Turkish airspace. If the two governments did not have a secret agreement, you would have heard of the following scenario:
Turkish interceptors meet IDF planes about to cross the border, warn them of their imminent violation and escort them out. Simple as that. Didn't happen. Such things WOULD have been publicised for a very logical reason: aerial intercepts are noticed by several countries' radar installations, and denying such an event would be very hard.
Another thing: yes, the Turkish government can publicly complain all it wants about IDF actions, but without their silent agreement IDF jets wouldn't be using Turkish airspace. Turkey doesn't want to lose all its credibility in the other Muslim countries, but as a secular nation it most certainly does not condone Hezbollah's or other fundamentalist/extremist organisations' actions. Hence no Turkish jets intercepting anybody at all.

Regarding the PKK (a Kurdish separatist organisation that is banned in most civilised nations for supporting terrorism, they have terror camps in Norther Iraq and would like to claim that region as part of "Kurdistan", which does, in fact, not exist):
yep, the States should let Turkey annihalate them, but obviously the Kurds of Iraq wouldn't like that very much - and you probably know how important the US-loyal Kurds are to the Iraqi nation building effort.

Yes, we all know that Israel was merely waiting for a reason to unleash hell on Hezbollah in Lebanon - this is what we all heard on BBC, Reuters, CNN and all major European news agencies. So this cannot considered a conspiracy theory.
Then again, we must remember that Hezbollah may look very nice to the population of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon because of its humanitarian wing - but let's not forget this is a commonly recognised terrorist organisation whose main goal is to destroy the nation of Israel and which recruits suicide bombers to murder civilians there.

Hezbollah, in the simple words of the uneducated populace, is the Evil we must all fight.

Frankly, an organisation whose major goal is to bring death and destruction to a country does not deserve my sympathy or yours.

The civilians in Israel, Palestine and Lebanon are those who suffer. Our hearts and minds should be with them because all life is holy, regardless of random lines we draw called nation/religion/race. Our discussion on this board or others like it will not improve their situation, nor will our antagonising each other over political viewpoints bring the dead back to life. Frankly, religion and politics have no place on the PR forum. Therefore I call for a LOCK.

[[R-CON]ZZEZ]

Seems the airstrike was to take out Iranian supplies to Hezbollah, namely anti-air weapons.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...ria/index.html

In the news right now they are reporting it.

[-=TB=-ante9383]

"Israeli aircraft carried out an airstrike inside Syria last week, possibly targeting weapons that were destined for Hezbollah militants, according to sources in the region and in the United States."

"The Israeli government is very happy with the success of the operation, the sources said.

Sources in the U.S. government and military confirmed to CNN's Barbara Starr that the airstrike did happen, and that they are happy to have Israel carry the message to both Syria and Iran that they can get in and out and strike when necessary."

Isreal won't get any heat from me concerning this action, considering what Hezbollah uses its weapons for.

But again, I call for a LOCK!

[*2Recon*]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Yeah, 3 Billion a year helps you keep a non classical imperial double standard as well.

I thought it was about 1,5? Well anyway there is a seed of truth in that for sure.

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

But notice the salient detail in all of this.
The Russians are again field testing their merchandise with Arab lives

Field testing, really? Thats not something you hear every day, want to explain a little?

-------

If its true that Isreal was targeting weapons that were destined for Hezbollah and if its true that it was a success, then its a smart action on Israels part. These weapons most likely include anti-aircraft missiles and since the israeli army is incapable of fighting the Hizbollah on its own ground, it would be extremely harmful for them if their airpower would be threatened.

I fail to see a reason why this should be locked.

btw. this came out last week

also this

for those of you who cant find it

[Kruder]

Originally Posted by -=TB=-ante9383

People, we all think we're very well informed don't we? Well, consider the following possibility: we don't know shit.

Kruder, IDF jets do not "violate" Turkish airspace, I can assure you of that.
.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=121813

[-=TB=-ante9383]

Originally Posted by Kruder

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=121813

I am positive that despite their public protesting, behind closed doors the Turkish government and military don't give a f*ck.

They know it was in fact not a hostile act by Israel, as Turkey has friendly relations with the nation of Israel.

Military necessity (i.e. lighten their loads to get their F-16 the hell out of Syrian AAA range) > political politeness.

It may have not been "polite" to just dump their empty fuel tanks somewhere in Turkey (though again, I'm sure they did everything they could to avoid hitting any populated areas), but ultimately all parties involved understand it was necessary and nothing more.