Armor and Iraq

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

There have been recent headlines about the lack of armor in Iraq and how the current adminsitration is not taking care of the troops.
This is one of the troops and he has a different opinion.

I would first like to point out that this is just one more attempt by the liberals to take an extremely complicated situation, look at one small aspect of the story, and then invent the story that they what to tell. We have over 70,000 M1114 Up-Armored HMMWVs in theatre right now. With that said, it is remarkable that we would be able to retro-fit this number of vehicles with armor in this short of time period while still conducting 24 hour combat operations.
The short version of the story is that they call this upgrade to the Armor, FRAG5 because it is the fifth such armor upgrade to this one vehicle in just the four years of the war. This number of upgrades does not include the turret upgrades and unit driven upgrades. The number of upgrades per truck sits now at a minimum of eight, with only five being manufactured for the body of the truck. A little quick math and that works out to two per year for just one vehicle type, which we happen to have over 70,000 of.

This still is not the whole story. M1114’s are new additions to all units besides Military Police Units. Prior to Iraq Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, Engineers, or any other unit you can name did not have M1114’s. The need for such trucks were quickly realized during the initial phases of the Iraq War and a rapid fielding was put in place to make this happen. During the initial invasion there were no more than 3,000 M1114’s in theatre. This is another success in the armor fielding, in the matter of about one year they went from 3,000 of these trucks to over 30,0000 and now over 70,000. Additionally there are another 10,000 M1151/1152 in country. A M1151/M1152 is an improved armored version of the M1114 HMMWV.

In addition to the upgrades to all of these 70,000+ M1114s, the Army has upgraded every vehicle that travels out in sector; from ballistic glass for Track Commanders on Tanks and Bradley’s, to armored doors and glass for support vehicles, and everything in between. There is not a single vehicle that goes out in sector that has not been upgraded for threats specific to Iraq. The old vehicles that we initially retrofitted with armor, until the Military rapidly fielded M1114’s to all units, are now relegated to FOB (Forward Operating Base) Runners.

The armored upgrade program is a tremendously successful program and has saved thousands of lives. This story on the armor upgrades has been taken by the media and other uneducated members, and painted a very successful and impressive program as a failure. It is an appalling lack of fact checking by the media and others that should be informed on the issue.

A little more perspective is needed to understand this story fully. When I was here on my first tour from JAN04-FEB05 I started out with a M707 HMMWV without any armor on it at all and I was the Quick Reaction Force Commander for North Western Baghdad. This was not really that big of a problem because IED’s were just and emerging threat. However, within two months of being in country I received armored doors for all six of my trucks, unfortunately not ballistic windshields (this was because of my gun trucks were a specialized Fire Support vehicle that had to have a kit manufactured just for it). We had this set-up for another three months until I was shot threw the windshield of my HMMWV. By the time I got back into country, 41 days later, all my trucks had retro-fitted ballistic windshields. This story is simply to illustrate that if anyone understands the importance of upgrades, I would qualify as an expert on the subject.

In addition to the upgrades to M1114’s and bringing M1114’s into country by the thousands, the Military was upgrading its more traditional unarmored gun trucks like my M707. These were not just soldiers strapping metal on the sides (this did happen but was quickly replaced by the manufactured kits) but were actual manufactured armored kits for these trucks. I personally survived 13 IED attacks against my truck with the armored kits and only sustained one serious injury. Without that interim armor upgrades to my trucks not only would I have died but I would have lost many soldiers to IED attacks. The same trucks that my men and I survived countless IEDs in; are now the trucks that are relegated to FOB duty and not allowed to go out the gate. This all happened in a matter of a year and a half.

When I returned to Iraq in AUG06 I did not even recognize the trucks that I fell in on because of all the different armor upgrades on them. Even since I have been in country I have received three armored upgrades to my trucks. Two of the upgrades to my truck were to my turret (which do not count in the number in the FRAG series upgrades) and the other being the now controversial FRAG5 kit. I have also received two other combat upgrades that are classified but greatly improve the survivability of our trucks against IED attacks.

The bottom line is the equipment, is changing at such a rapid pace to meet the needs of our forces; even being out of theatre for a few months and coming back can be daunting because all the new upgrades and equipment that you would have to learn. The medical field as well has taken tremendous strides forward that include better training and medical supplies that did not even exist before war started. It is amazing how quickly the Military has adapted its forces and equipment for this war the efforts should be applauded by all not belittled by those that do not have there facts straight.

Just another note on this is that out of my teams 7 trucks we have all of our trucks either Objective FRAG5 or Interim FRAG5 and we one M1152. The Objective FRAG5 that was first manufactured in the middle of last year but they had an interim solution that works almost as well by adapting a kit that was for something else and they call that the Interim FRAG5. I have included pictures of an Interim FRAG5, Objective FRAG5, and a M1152 for you to look at.
http://michellemalkin.com/

[Viper5]

This thread will be locked in...

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*MESSAGE TERMINATED*

00h MODs are gettin good

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Why would this get locked ?
And why do so many people seem to love to jump in a thread and post nothing but that statement ?
If you want it locked, perhaps you could provide a reason ?
Is this not "News from the Frontlines" and isn't that piece above clearly NEWS from the frontlines ?

[NikovK]

Yeah. This is a really intelligent post.

I order you to leave it open until someone mentions genitalia.

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Why would this get locked ?
And why do so many people seem to love to jump in a thread and post nothing but that statement ?
If you want it locked, perhaps you could provide a reason ?
Is this not "News from the Frontlines" and isn't that piece above clearly NEWS from the frontlines ?

Maybe because rather then quoting the military assessment on this issue ( which is more throughout as well as linked in the general article), you choose to quote one person who chooses to first bash on the "liberals" then goes to his facts. Which doesn't make for a good read.

For the rest the military article makes an interesting read.



ps: how do you call an Italian genius outside of Italy?

geni italia

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I think there is part of the problem, nomenklature.

I would first like to point out that this is just one more attempt by the liberals to take an extremely complicated situation, look at one small aspect of the story, and then invent the story that they what to tell

That is not "bashing". That is a recital of the headlines.

I don't know...what do you call an Italian genius outside of Italy ?

[eddie]

I don't know what I can see wrong with this thread, what a strange feeling.
It's nice to see the U.S protecting their troops, the vehicle I like in particular is the Cougar and the Buffallo.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I would guess the HMMV is better armored than the Sherman tank at this point.

[NYgurkha]

You know ive had this rash in my genitalia for a while....

[eddie]

Got a point with that or do you want a warning?