Qinling needs MAJOR revamp.

[SuperTimo]

i dont like 32 player qinling and 16 player kashan, they are for people who are scared of tanks and jets. Ie people who dont know how to deal with them or don't realise they need to get in cover.

[Jonny]

Recently, with a team made up almost entirely of EEF members on qinling, we got hold of 3 warriors and a merlin. We moved as an infantry fireteam down the map with aerial reconaissence at all times.

It worked brilliantly, great fights and flanking was done many times.

There was plenty of covering and looking out for each other going on, we moved as one unit into battle.

This is how it should ALWAYS play out.

The problem though, is that there are usually too many people or not enough armour.

So this leaves a few options for the map:
1. Screw it, the vehicle layout sucks so dont play. (what most INF do now)
2. Limit the number of people on the server. (bad method, should be avoided)
3. Put more armoured vehicles on the map, and shorter spawn times. (Caring less about APCs a problem? Going INF is worse...)

The third is my favorite, so what if people dont REALLY worry about their vehicle? Over half WILL be destroyed, so you are really screwing up the gameplay by trying to force people to worry about the vehicles.

Sure, there will be more armour on a smaller server and people will always be able to get at an APC or tank, but IMO its worth it to make this a proper armour map.

If you want mechanised INF then remove the tanks. Its the only way I see an APC being preferable to a jeep. This works out on the 32p size already, but 64 is pretty much a vehicle only map. But lacking the vehicles.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

try playing the 32p version if you want mech infantry only... I dunno how many times I have to say it...

[Jonny]

FFS...

32 is just about fine with only 32 people, because of the lack of tanks making widespread use of mechainsed INF feasable.

64 is NOT fine with 64 players, mechanised INF is not feasable due to tanks and helis being present. But there is not enough armour to go around, so people kill each other over it or are forced to go INF. Which on THIS map should never happen.

Hence:
64 needs more APCs and tanks. Enough for everyone to use.

Have you not realised that normal INF on 4k maps is BAD yet?

If not try it, get you squad to jump in the back of a random APC and get blown up because the crew attemp to engage another APC/tank.

Try walking across the desert/throught the crap forest for 5 min, then tard rush the tanks and APCs defending from a hill miles away because you could not see it before it fired.

Get TKed trying to get hold of a tank/APC because the other guy was there first.

This is what kills servers. This is why I never play a nearly full 4k map now. Its just not worth it when I can join a server with less players and get the assets my squad needs to be effective against tanks and APCs.

[cyberzomby]

Not sure if I agree with you. I played this map yesterday and the fact that your out of the game fast ( because of the lack of armour ) as a tank squad is what makes it interesting. If there was more armour or faster respawn everyone would just go crazy and rambo style! Now we where glad as we sneak attacked 2 enemy tanks and a shilka and took them out because we rid our team of 3 important assets for a big time period. Our tank squad took out all the enemy armour and it felt good. If there where faster respawn times it would just be another tank kill.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

ehhh no in fact your no right here, if you in fact try and add up all the assets you will find out your mistaken.

32p dose have less assets and probaly could do with some more, but the fundamental bit your forgetting is the transport choppers which are the core of the 32p version, the problem thou with that is the merlin lag.

64p how ever you say there are too many tanks, but then you say there are not enough tanks? and ehhh no, there is enough stuff to go round on the 64p, in fact even when the server is full there is more than enough stuff to go round, lets do some maths shall we?

4 tanks, x2 crewman (min) = 8 players, with maybe a extra 2 as engys but we will forget that for now.
2 jets = 2 players
1 attack chopper = 2 players
1 transport chopper, x 1 pilot and 1 squad = 7 players, could easily be more.
1 APC (with a max of 3 on the map), x 2 crewman and 1 squad = 8 players
2 cars (with the potential of 6 cars on the map, and even more if bunkers and FBs are build) = 6 players.
1 truck (with a max of 4 and more with a CP built) = a min of 1 player to drive, max of 8.

so lets add it up shall we?

just the min on its own is 34 players, not including anything like engys for tanks, or max of vehicles that could be present etc.

now 34 players, x 2 teams = 68 players. oh and whats that, we only have 64 players in a server? So really the 64p mode is over saturated with mainly light vehicles than anything else, epically if CPs, FBs and bunkers are made.


Now the 32p mode, lets have a quick look.

2x transport choppers = 14 players
4x APCs = 32 players

Even with the APCs on there own, you have the entier team and there is a max of 8 APCs for 1 team on the map.


so ye jonny, do some research next time, FFS

[Jonny]

Now lets do what actually happens:

4 tanks = 7 people
2 jets = 2 people
1 attack heli = 2 people
1 trans heli = 4 people
1 APC = 2 people
2 cars = 3 people (got abandoned)
1 truck = 3 people

Total = 23
Leaving 9 people who were not fast enough to get into the vehicles and a few more who are waiting for the vehicles to respawn.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Now lets do what actually happens:

4 tanks = 7 people
2 jets = 2 people
1 attack heli = 2 people
1 trans heli = 4 people
1 APC = 2 people
2 cars = 3 people (got abandoned)
1 truck = 3 people

Total = 23
Leaving 9 people who were not fast enough to get into the vehicles and a few more who are waiting for the vehicles to respawn.

its your problem if you cant use the assets in the correct way. The reason why you think there is not enough APCs as all you want to use APCs as is "light tanks" (ie, the 2 players you have stated) and not as transport which they are meant for. Why would 1 squad need 3 APCs, unless you are basically got 3 light tanks like your example above? I think the problem mainly lies with the way you play.

[[R-DEV]Drav]

Just fix the J10 and everything will be fine on this map. Id like a larger village and more buildings at the mine as these are the only two white flags present, but really its the J10 that unbalances this map more than anything.

[Jonny]

Its not suitable for transport with the ammount of tanks on the 64p layer.

If a tank gets ONE lucky shot you loose 8 people, and that is NOT acceptable to any squads in game.

If you want it to be used as transport there needs to be much more easily found methods of defending it, like more APCs for PLA and scimitars for GB. That way it is not as likely to be the first thing hit, and is more likely to be left for the fuller squads to use as transport as the scimitar is faster and gets up hills easier.