How I would solve weapon deviation

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]nedlands1

Know those sideshow games where you have to hit the mole which pops from various locations? It's like that. You shoot at a guy, he ducks, moves to the side (while still undercover and hence invisible), then pops up and kills you.

Download .7 lol, jk

I dont think its as bad as you make it out to be, but there sure is room for improvement.

...mongol...

[[R-CON]nedlands1]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Mongolian_dude

Download .7 lol, jk

I dont think its as bad as you make it out to be, but there sure is room for improvement.

...mongol...

Nah not as bad as in 0.6. Still effective though, unless you are in grenade range. Won an epic fight against five guys which would make you reconsider the statement, "never bring a knife to a gunfight" because of the random deviation in 0.7 though .

[Psykogundam]

I really like the idea that the screen goes blurry the more you run. i mean, as is, the sprint/stamina meter is only a vague transmogrification of real strength. When you run, your heart pumps faster, you lungs have to work harder your adreneline surges, and wind blurrs your eyes, as well as that, in desert maps there is a serious amount of dust and sand, this should automatically be a big factor.

yea tweaking the vision settings with overlays is a great idea. its a fundamental, and should be remembered.

[Psykogundam]

Yes, i agree with vision blurring for gunfights and running. its a fundamental, especially in desert maps where theres lots of grit and sand, running down sand dunes and getting blinded would...
(a) temperarily blind you and force you to take cover...
(b)make you reconsider running like an idiot everywhere without making decisions...

thats a fundamental realism.


thanks for reading

[SectorNine50]

Oh my god if I got blurry eyed from running long distances I would stop playing. It's already obnoxious enough that I can't see when someone shoots right behind me when I'm at a dead sprint because I know in real life I would be able to see just fine. And I wouldn't think that just because I'm running somewhere means that I am "running like an idiot," so I don't think that I should be punished accordingly. These maps are huge, and being blind until your stamina recovered would be hugely annoying. What if you layed down, blind from bluriness because you ran across the map, and the enemy came up right in front of you and you couldn't shoot him at all (even at close range) because you cannot get your bearings on him, kinda like being drunk Unless you give us a bottle of Jack Daniels as a weapon item, it is very unrealistic.

It would be really cool if the crosshairs would actually just move, not the whole screen. That way the deviation could be seen on screen like IRL instead of you seeing a tracer going about 45 degrees right of where your sights are. Not sure if this is possible from a coding standpoint though.

[hoak]

While the PRM deviation system is reasonable in concept, the execution leaves a lot to be desired. At least two Mods commenting on deviation in the original (now locked) thread don't even understand Refractor 2 script no less realistic weapon metrics -- and if this is the sort of thing that's being listened to by those actually developing the mod future outcomes will probably be unfortunate...

Obviously marksmanship should be very difficult on the move, or when perturbed by any player movement -- and 1.333s is a reasonable starting point for slew/settle time constant. Where this all goes wrong is that we're typically shooting at man-targets in PRM at well under 200m, because of pixilation limitations of game engines. What this means in lay terms is we can't realistically identify friendly targets in PRM (or any game for that matter) at realistic ranges of engagement, and can't even see man targets at the typical limit of a realistic engagement -- so PRM like most games has fire fights at much closer range then would typically be the case IRL...

Combine this with the fact that no game engine allows for ideal or even consistent WYSIWYG server authoritive MOA; that is to say even if we were make PRM weapons perfectly accurate in code/script, or give them realistic native MOA they won't be in practice due to all sorts of complex latencies and error correction schemes from the mouse driver, to net code, hit reconciliation, and latency compensation on the server.

With the current deviation system, the long rifles in PRM are not even remotely realistic or scale accurate with regard to what a resonably trained infantryman can achieve when firing from the prone position with carefully aimed and timed shots. To be sure there at least one weapon is bugged, and some weapons come closer then others at being realistic (though this is woefully incongruent and inconsistent accross the weapons represented), but for the most part, we're firing at ranges in PRM, where you'd be able to drive nails with any weapon in the game including a handgun if you were prone, rested, and carefully placing your shots.

One possible work-around to the 'insta-prone' issue and the fact that BF2 does not allow for realistic weapon/sights displacement would be to have the player animation lower the weapon sights until the he was fully prone and realistically positioned -- perhaps as much as a three second delay. Weapon deviation and the fact that we can't see our weapon move in BF2/PRM could be augmented by any number of scripted telemetry: a small pip or color change in the HUD when the player's weapon is fully stabilized, or even better, sound Foley where we hear the player take a breath for the aimed shot...

Something else that's obviously desperately needed in PRM is for the Developers to acutally hit test and measure their weapon metrics with real hit registration test targets, so there's objective verified corroberation that a weapon is actually performing as it's scripted and intended -- which sadly is sometimes not the case...

The deviation issues can be fixed to more realistically scale how real weapons and trained riflemen perform, and improve game-play commensurately. Unfortunately it seems a lot of obtuse and arcane 'pet wish' notions about how infantry should fight based on anecdotal BS stories and out of context statistics from Iraq seem to prevail on PRM design... PRM is still a great mod, but it could very easily be a lot better -- with more full-context game design that avoids player and game play management via obtuse design abstracts...

[BloodBane611]

To be honest hoak, you make some good points, you make some stupid ones, but overall it doesn't matter because 0.75 is already on its way.

Also, 99% of what you see on these forums bears no relation to what the DEVs actually do.

[Dr2B Rudd]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

Also, 99% of what you see on these forums bears no relation to what the DEVs actually do.

Yet we all dream of suggesting that 1%

[hoak]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

To be honest hoak, you make some good points, you make some stupid ones, but overall it doesn't matter because 0.75 is already on its way.

Are you saying you're not ususally honest? As for your remarks about 'good' and 'stupid' with no supporting discussion for your head pats and hit and run insults -- this is the sort of thing that really 'doesn't matter'.

Neither have I read anywhere that PR is in a state of finalized 'code freeze', or that 0.75 will be the last version of PRM -- making all discussion on the forms meaningless.

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

Also, 99% of what you see on these forums bears no relation to what the DEVs actually do.

There's considerable evidence of much more then 1% of solid game design recitation on the forums has and continues to influence the design of PRM to a considerable extent. Certainly a considerable portion of the forum content is petty drive-by-insults, posts that don't move anything forward or make any valid point, and ridiculous 'I want magic spells' pet wish posts -- any Developer or Fan has to ignore these to remain sane... Unfortunately I'm compelled to respond to some...