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Old 01-06-2008, 05:18 PM   #21

Good squad leaders are irrelevant without a good commander coordinating them all. Teamwork must occur at all levels of the team for it to be successful.

Still, whilst I can be a squad leader and capable at it, I'd rather not have the responsibility of building RPs and giving orders.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:52 PM   #22
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Training session is definitely needed fuzz. One round with a great SL makes you realise what this mod is about. I had my first one of those on Jabal almost two years ago when I randomly joined fuzzheads squad. Look where I am now....

Good squad leaders are what get people hooked on this mod and in turn, that's the main reason that we are the only BF2 mod with a consistant flow of players each release.

"Clear the battlefield and let me see, All the profit from our victory." - Greg Lake
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:23 PM   #23

Brood's Avatar

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead View Post
By creating your own squad you dont need to rely on others to make the squads for you!
WAC T1ts ftw tbh...

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Old 01-06-2008, 07:10 PM   #24
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Yeah..I agree with everyone here. It was obvious after the first day of this release that the pubbies were gonna have issues..I think Fuzz is correct, be bold and start your own squad and give it a go. Thats what I have been doing. It is a different role to be sure than .6 because the sl really has to focus on coordination.

My biggest frustration while being a sl is when the sm's do not listen or even respond..After 2 or 3 chances I kick them. Also, not every round is going to go your way. Why people leave a squad once it looks hopeless is LAME. Stick it out, try your best, try different tactics. Its not always about winning. Finally, communicate communicate communicate. THIS IS KEY. I find myself saying to my squad "stay together" alot. If you want to try something settle down and run it by the sl. The final frustration is with commanders. I have requested build order many times only to be ignored. AAAAAARGH. Commanders need to sit back and coordinate even more than the sl's.

I love this build. IT is tremendously challenging..especially for us pubbies. The clans and teams have a HUGE advantage over the pubbies, but hey, in a few months many of us will be able to hold our own.


Though the rules of the road have been lodged.....its only peoples games that you have to dodge...ITS ALRIGHT MA..its life and life only!!
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:47 PM   #25

Drakenberg's Avatar

I usaly create squads, pepole comes with lots of kind words about my leadership.
As a veteran squad leader i can say the lack of squadleaders isnt the problem...

The problem lies in the members hands, most memebers havnt got mices.
If they do, they only answer "yes" or "no" if youre lucky FOR F**K SAKE SPEAK, If you are shy in real life. Too bad, but in pr there is nothing to be ashamed of, you play with pepeole you will never meet (some do) so why be shy.

I kick the ones without mic out of my squad If they arent skilled teamplayers.
I like to play with the non geeeks, sure geeks might be better but non geeks (those that "have a life") are funnier and arent that shy.
Also you can chuck a few jokes at them and they joke back at ya. I like that, but since most take it personaly i usaly dont joke anyomore and that gets boring...

Dont get me for one of the jokers ingame, i take pr very seriously, but its still a game and it isnt war, a joke makes the feeling in the squad better...

I dont know why i wrote all that crap, im tired bla bla bla

But the main part is...

The problem lies in the members, not the lack of squadleaders!

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Old 01-06-2008, 11:02 PM   #26

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I agree that more people that are capable of good squad leading arent doing so because they dont want take all the responsibility of coordinating a squad and telling what to do all the time. People also think that it is impossible to play with complete strangers and still be a good coordinated and disciplined squad. This not true in the least and Ive had the most fun squadleading newbies and strangers. I will give you guys a couple guidelines to make a group of unfamiliar players into an effiective combat machine.

First and foremost introduce yourselfs
Now that the pregame time is longer use it to familiarize your self with the squad. Start with a squad wide introduction of yourself. After you introduce yourself have your squad do the same. All you need to say really is your ingame name, age(optional), and preffered short nickname. For example my introduction would be like "Hi there Im Razick, Im 24, call me Raz for short. What this does is take away that shy stigma that the players around you are strangers and after this they are no longer the inpersonal, faceless figures. I recommended this mostly as an icebreaker so the squad is comfortable with each other before the round even starts.

Second: Ground rules and the issuing of responsiblities
Even though you have introduce yourselfs to each other doesnt mean you no longer need discipline. First do a radio check; you do this by going down the list and calling said name out for a check. So it would go something like "Newbie 32 radio check,....Check!...Newbie 68 radio check.....Check!. Even if you did the introduction do the radio check anyway as it will turn on their resposivness when their name is called out (people arent always in working order and must be rejuvinated). Then you will start the kit load out and start issuing it to the appropriate people. You normally wanna give the support roles to newer players or mic-less ppl becuase they dont have the experience for full combat roles or unable to communicate quickly. Have them as medics and engineers or as the high priority kits like support, Anti-tank, and AA.

Make sure when you are doing the load outs that you emphasize the responsibility and that you call them by Name instead of the usual "Can somebody be medic?". You dont need an Oscar performance to emphasize the responsibility but just a reminder on what the job demands and a quick quiz of on what they are, like "So do you understand what your job is as medic"

Third: Your plan and how you are gonna execute it
This one you really have to improvise as the squad roles arent always the same. One might be infantry and another an armor squad. Try not to mix the roles as much as possible because when one squad has a lot of roles it gets hard to coordinate as a team. Only real exception will be a mechanized infantry squad and you a take an APC. All you need is one so dont take you own private fleet of APCs if your only transporting 4 guys.

Fourth: Squad Leading in the field
This where your true role as squad leader really comes into play. You have to do two things in particular and they are A. Keep the squad coordinated while moving and engaging enemy and B.Make quick, but thought out, decisions. To help with coordination as I admit can get frustrating once they are out of 3D arrow range is to use movement arrows and maybe assingning combat buddys. Pair up two guys according to kits and tell them that you want them to be together at all times unless told otherwise. Again emphasize this by telling them that you want them to be together, no execuses. My usual speech goes something like this, "I want you guys together no matter what, one of you guys gets in a vehicle the other does also. One guy runs for ammo the other does also. If one needs to take a piss the other will be holding his pants up. And if you lose your buddy you just hunker your ass down and call out his name and dont move an inch until you find each other. Is that clear".

They learn pretty quick with that technique but you dont need to be that harsh for the same results. For decision making you gotta have proper intel before you do anything. Dont attack with out fist scouting the area and assesing what you have to do to succeed if you do attack. Dont zerg in like 0.6 because even a half ass squad can quickly tell where you are coming from. Coordinate, Communicate and Compute, always. If you are vastly outnumbered or are woefully under equiped for an objective make it clear quickly and decide how you are gonna deal with it.

Also let squad become part of the decision making, after all that discipline and order giving let them know that their suggestions and inquiries are essential. No suggestion or question is stupid when it comes as to what the squad should do. You dont want a dictatorship but a more of a rep democracy with one common goal.

Fifth the most important of all
You have to be confident in everything you do even if you have bad second thoughts about it. More people will follow a confident squadleader through loads of crap than an unsure indecisive one through an easily won fight. And again call people by name, this is important as it make people feel useful if they have responsibilties to the squad and are called by name. Tell people to cover a certain sector even though it is unlikely that an attck will come from there, still it gives people value and worth that they are covering their buddies.

If they dont respond or listen to your orders use my two warning rule. The first time remind them of what they did wrong and to correct it. If they do it again tell them that if they disobey orders they will be kicked out the squad and if they dont want to be part of the squad that they leave immediately. Take the initiative and encourage them to take part in making the squad successful.

Use this more like a guideline than a manual. Take what you like and leave what you dont. Be creative and resourceful but most of all allow your squad to be the same way. After all that is what a good leader is, one who could make every one around them better. You do this and youll have no problem getting people to participate.
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Last edited by Razick; 01-06-2008 at 11:10 PM.. Reason: Holy crap this long! lol my bad
Old 01-07-2008, 02:03 AM   #27

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Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead View Post
I agree with you.

Hopefully I will run some more squad training sessions in the upcoming weeks as v0.7 has really brought my interest back into this mod!
This would be way awesome.

How do I sign up?

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Old 01-07-2008, 10:38 AM   #28
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great post Razick! maybe we can team up and do a squad leader training sessions some time
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:50 AM   #29

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I'd be happy to join, but don't consider me signed up yet. I'd need details.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:59 AM   #30
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Great post Raz. The only thing that puts the "KABASH" on that great post is the squad jumping phenomena. AAAARG. Finally, the squad is set and ready to take over the world. Player x leaves, then another joins in...then player Y leaves and 5 minutes later player T leaves, then a couple more people join in. When this happens, I usually sit still and try to explain what our goal is.

To everyone reading post, if you commit to a squad and they are at least communicating...DONT LEAVE to join a diff. squad. If you gotta go...yeah, we all know thats the reality of it...(wife is being a pain..gtg, kid crapped threw up..gtg) yeah..we get it, but to leave coz you are losing or you want to get into a more "prestigeous" squad..LAME.

The best rounds are when the squad stays relatively the same throughout the or lose.

Though the rules of the road have been lodged.....its only peoples games that you have to dodge...ITS ALRIGHT MA..its life and life only!!
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