Changes to Basrah [Gameplay]

[Celestial1]

Just a thread with suggestions from anyone and everyone who thinks that Basrah could use some changes. For those who don't know, many networkable objects are being removed in v0.8 to prevent the crashes after a round on Basrah ends.

1. Remove the Merlin - The Merlin on Al Basrah wastes more tickets than the number of troops it actually transports, on a usual basis. Instead, focus Al Basrah on land vehicles and infantry squads; it will allow the insurgents the opportunity to set up regular ambushes and stop worrying about the Merlin flying very obviously overhead and trying to drop troops on the opposite side of you, only to be wiped out by a few insurgents collaborating on a rooftop.
   
2. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
3. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
4. Changes to Cache System - Currently there are 3 caches active regularly. Insurgents are usually concentrated around 2 of them, if you're lucky. Instead, reducing the active caches to 2 (Or, my personal opinion, a single cache area with perhaps a second one that cannot be seen by british forces until the first one is taken out) to concentrate the fight. Intel would still work the same way; caches will not be seen by the British side until the British meet the intel requirement. Also, the amount of caches should be reduced to 5-6 caches overall to account for the amount of time the British would spend on a single cache (British may need an increase in tickets overall).
   
5. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.
   
6. Civi Appearance Change - I'm not saying that the civi should go back to it's old BRIGHT GREEN vest, but if he's going to have that white striped shirt then no one else on the insurgent team should. Give the civi a uniform that isn't immediately obvious, but not so that you can mistake an insurgent kit or the like (they render with weapons but without the head-piece at a distance of 100m or so, and obviously without either farther out)
   
7. Less focus on the West Village - Too many times there is a cache out in West Village, and it seems although the entire British team goes straight to the village and assaults that cache relentlessly. It usually takes them far too long to find the cache, and often causes the British to lose too much time and they end up losing the round.

Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

[thedoombringer0]

Originally Posted by Celestial1

1. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
2. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
3. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.

Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

I removed what i dont agree with.
The merlin is not a problem i have very rarely seen it misused in the way you described.
The cache system is fine if you get teamwork between squads which is rarely a problem thus a defence can be organised.
Civie apparance change not needed watch what you shoot. Only return fire etc.
The focus on west village this happens sometimes but provides some of the most exciting battles.

I also have some suggestions to add

Firstly civies should be able to repair bridges its not fair that brits role in with armour due to an indestructable bridge and a fording point while insugents cannot get bomb cars etc to counter them from the palace due to brits blowing all 3 bridges and since civies cant repair them chances are slim an insugent will get an engie kit then make it to the bridges to repair them.

Secondly vcp spawn should be permanent and landys should respawn great help for infantry squads.

[Anderson29]

if u make it where civis can repair bridges then the bomb cars would be to spammy...so if civis repair bridges then max bombs of 2 with the respawn time of a tank. and i also think once an insurgent rally goes down it should stay down. they have palace and mosque as permanent spawns. but only do that if brits rally only has limited amount of spawns. then firebases and bunkers become more important and the insurgents will stay in the city...perhaps to defend their rallys

[thedoombringer0]

spammy bomb cars?
A good armour crew would have no problem taking out a bomb car the tuck would be a problem but even a good landy gunner can take a bomb car. Remember they have little health and take alot of damage off road i often have my bomb car explode randomly while driving off road.

So you think the brits should run around with all this armour and the insurgents have few effective means to counter this considering most armour bolts back to fb/bunker/cp for repairs after one rpg hit

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by thedoombringer0

I removed what i dont agree with.
The merlin is not a problem i have very rarely seen it misused in the way you described.
The cache system is fine if you get teamwork between squads which is rarely a problem thus a defence can be organised.
Civie apparance change not needed watch what you shoot. Only return fire etc.
The focus on west village this happens sometimes but provides some of the most exciting battles.

I also have some suggestions to add

Firstly civies should be able to repair bridges its not fair that brits role in with armour due to an indestructable bridge and a fording point while insugents cannot get bomb cars etc to counter them from the palace due to brits blowing all 3 bridges and since civies cant repair them chances are slim an insugent will get an engie kit then make it to the bridges to repair them.

Secondly vcp spawn should be permanent and landys should respawn great help for infantry squads.

I'm sorry, but did you read half the things I wrote? Insurgents past roughly 200 meters do not render a headgarb. This includes the RPG kit (which also contains binocs) render the same as a civi. Weapons being the only difference, which does no good if they are using the knife, binocs, nade/molotov And depending on how far/obscured, the ammo bag. Everything but a rifle. Earlier today, I held fire on what looked to be a civi, until he stood up after crawling with an RPG, and shot my Challenger II seconds before my coaxil bullets reached him.

The Merlin causes a large disorganization of the British team, with the usual "I wanna fly I wanna fly" banter, as well as the mismatched squad members hopping in just so they can get a ride in their favorite little helicopter. When they do finally land, there are often Brits not even in the same squad dropped off, and with the easy to spot green piggy of a chopper flying generally so low, the British troops are easy to find if you just follow the noise of the Merly.

The cache system is very disorganized, with the British team only usually attacking a single cache with any force. Reducing the amount of caches not only visible but OVERALL will focus the battle more and give the British team a single objective to worry about.

I'm not saying REMOVE the west village caches, just tone down the frequency of them.


Now, for your points: Civis don't have the resources to rebuild a commercial bridge. End of story.
Why bother with the VCP being permanent when most troops are at the main getting a lift from the merlin, getting an Armored vehicle, or just waanking about until one of those occurs.

More light transport is a good thing, but do remember that APCs are ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, not infantry fighting vehicles. Start using them so.

[Dr2B Rudd]

[*]Remove the Merlin No thanks, its often used badly, but thats partly due to the infamous lag. Might be fixed in future release
[*]Change Insurgent Rallies - agree wholeheartedly
[*]Moving Vehicle Wrecks - sure, why not
[*]Changes to Cache System - no thanks, if anything more than 3 should be in play at a time to keep the game mobile
[*]More Severe Civi Punishments - kinda eliminates the point of the civilian...
[*]Civi Appearance Change - I havent killed a civi in months, no change needed imo, if ur SL is directing fire properly civi casualties will be minimal ingame
[*]Less focus on the West Village - why do the brits attack it? because its isolated with a high probability of a cache, with positions for APC/tank support and it also happens to be near a river crossing point, i.e. good place to attack. Village and refinery are the two places I'd attack if no intel is avaliable.

My points about basrah-
Needs more clever hidey places like on Archer for caches/ambushes

VCP is kinda pointless, make it cappable again with a SLOW bleed so that the fight can continue there (and it makes the strategy more rich and defined)

Have only one crossable fjord, either the bridges matter, or they don't, if they don't make them invincible and save the destructible objects

Something does need to be done to augment civilians, in order to make them easier to capture in a short range, (IRL i'd get down on the ground pretty sharphish if a man with a gun was shouting at me at 10meters away) I'd love something like a verbal warning that made civilians fair game within 10meters

civilians shouldn't be able to drive technicals, seems pointless that they cant pick up a gun, but they can drive a car with 2 on it.

I'd actually like the VCP to be moved nearer the bridge, the idea being that it can defend the bridge, but that sounds like a headache of a job

lolz, i could go on forever, but I still love the map

[Waaah_Wah]

Originally Posted by Celestial1

Just a thread with suggestions from anyone and everyone who thinks that Basrah could use some changes. For those who don't know, many networkable objects are being removed in v0.8 to prevent the crashes after a round on Basrah ends.

1. Remove the Merlin - The Merlin on Al Basrah wastes more tickets than the number of troops it actually transports, on a usual basis. Instead, focus Al Basrah on land vehicles and infantry squads; it will allow the insurgents the opportunity to set up regular ambushes and stop worrying about the Merlin flying very obviously overhead and trying to drop troops on the opposite side of you, only to be wiped out by a few insurgents collaborating on a rooftop.
   
   Well, thats that teams problem. I have seen the chopter being used effectively plenty of times. Dont dumb down the game just coz some people are morons
   
   
2. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
   Whats the problem really? I dont mind this as long as there are rallies to spawn at over the whole city
   
   
3. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
   Just place IEDs behind small rocks on the way or behind light poles. It works
   
   
4. Changes to Cache System - Currently there are 3 caches active regularly. Insurgents are usually concentrated around 2 of them, if you're lucky. Instead, reducing the active caches to 2 (Or, my personal opinion, a single cache area with perhaps a second one that cannot be seen by british forces until the first one is taken out) to concentrate the fight. Intel would still work the same way; caches will not be seen by the British side until the British meet the intel requirement. Also, the amount of caches should be reduced to 5-6 caches overall to account for the amount of time the British would spend on a single cache (British may need an increase in tickets overall).
   
   Just because the team wont guard cashes, you shouldnt reduse their number. Thats like forcing people to firs take east, then west beach on Jabal, just coz some teams have trouble defending two flags at the same time.
   
   
5. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.
   
   Yes on the first part, but no on the second. Watch your fire and you should be fine.
   
   
6. Civi Appearance Change - I'm not saying that the civi should go back to it's old BRIGHT GREEN vest, but if he's going to have that white striped shirt then no one else on the insurgent team should. Give the civi a uniform that isn't immediately obvious, but not so that you can mistake an insurgent kit or the like (they render with weapons but without the head-piece at a distance of 100m or so, and obviously without either farther out)
   
   
   If you see that he holds a weapon, fire. If he doesnt, dont. Its that easy. Insurgents and civilians look alike IRL, thats the main problem...
   
   
   
7. Less focus on the West Village - Too many times there is a cache out in West Village, and it seems although the entire British team goes straight to the village and assaults that cache relentlessly. It usually takes them far too long to find the cache, and often causes the British to lose too much time and they end up losing the round.

Well, thats your teams problem...
Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

Red.

[Waaah_Wah]

Originally Posted by Celestial1

More light transport is a good thing, but do remember that APCs are ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, not infantry fighting vehicles. Start using them so.

Warrior IFV. Say what?

[thedoombringer0]

Celestial 1 The warrior is an IFV

Most of the problems you describe come from lack of teamwork and communication not as a result of the map and the way it works.

The merlin is effective if communication and teamwork are used.

The cache system is fine yes most of the team usualy swarms one cache but irl real operations arent taken one at a time its usualy lots of raids all at the same time and thats what it encourages.

And well it is pretty easy not to kill a civie if in doubt fire a few shots near him if he stands there in line of fire its a civie trying to make you shoot him.

Finaly my idea of vcp is to stop people sitting in main but that could also be solved with co assets but commanding on basrah can be annoying and often people dont even bother.

[maverick551]

Originally Posted by thedoombringer0

spammy bomb cars?
A good armour crew would have no problem taking out a bomb car the tuck would be a problem but even a good landy gunner can take a bomb car. Remember they have little health and take alot of damage off road i often have my bomb car explode randomly while driving off road.

So you think the brits should run around with all this armour and the insurgents have few effective means to counter this considering most armour bolts back to fb/bunker/cp for repairs after one rpg hit

Its realistic isn't it? Have you ever heard of insurgents actually attempting to repair a bridge in battle? If the insurgents want to use their bomb cars so badly, then defend the bridges, its that simple.