Tank/APC/50 Cal Bullet Drop

[[uBp]Irish]

well. irl, .50 cals are pretty devestating.

you point it, and the just shear amount of dmg it can put out, probably warrants the fact that you should be getting 12 kills with it before you die.

Again, you must take into account not the effectiveness of the weapon and the user, but the stupidity of the people on the other end.

As soon as someone can figure out how to make something work, and someone on the recieving end dies via that new ability, that guy is now going to get all pissy and start crying because he cant have "fun" in "his" game.


and i believe cheesman's up-armored humvee(see the community mod section) has close to full 360 degree protection for the .50/240(i'm thinkin he's making a variant) gunner on top. Now the humvee will be a force to be reckoned with.

[Jonny]

From Wikipedia:

Most modern main battle tanks in the armies of industrialised countries still utilize "direct fire", but deploy laser range-finders. However, some optical and reticle range-finders are still in use in older and less sophisticated vehicles. Modern tanks have a variety of sophisticated systems to make them more accurate. Gyroscopes are used to stabilise the main weapon; computers calculate the appropriate elevation and aim-point, taking input from sensors for wind speed, air temperature, humidity, the gun-barrel temperature, warping and wear, the speed of the target (calculated by taking at least two sightings of the target with the range-finder), and the movement of the tank. Infrared or light-amplification night vision equipment is also commonly incorporated. Laser target designators may also be used to illuminate targets for guided munitions. As a result, modern tanks can fire with reasonable accuracy while on the move.

Note the part that states 'elevation and aim-point' are calculated.

[[R-CON]nedlands1]

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

Lase systems cannot determine lead on a multi variable changing object, it's just not possible.

Helicopters can change course on all 3 axis' at a moments notice, there is no way the ballistics computer would be able to calculate that in time. It would literally have to steer the round in the air unless it could tell the future. The tanker has to adjust for lead, the ballistics comp just does the distance IIRC.

The ballistics computer can predict the future . If something is traveling in one direction then it tends to go in that one direction. The computer can use this fact to calculate the course of the the target and the predict the position of the target at the time the round would get there. As long as the target doesn't deviate from the position significantly(1) is and the environmental factors are properly accounted for then the round should hit.

(1) The amount of deviation per second required for it to be significant is inversely proportional to the distance (ie the further away the target is, the bigger the impact is from it moving off course) and of course, it is proportional to itself.

[$kelet0r]

I think the main problem is that Sectornine assumes that the rangefinding laser only needs to hit a target once (aka for a tiny fraction of a second)
US tank gunners iirc are trained to lase a moving target for 1.5 seconds - that's 1.5 seconds where the laser is constantly held on the target as it moves regardless of the axes (if it's moving in a constant motion for that time, a modern tank will hit the target with ridiculously high accuracy out to 4000m) - so that the most accurate prediction can be made for the fire control
The tank is also measuring wind and atmospheric variables and the computer simply does the basic math - it all comes down to velocities and angles in the end, the basic trigonometry you learn in school

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Your arguments are just crap, sectornine50, the values that it recieves can be used to find the rate of change (acceleration), and rate of change of that. This, along with the high velocity of the shell, means you dont stand a chance in hell of surviving.


And dont you DARE tell me what is and is not possible for the computer to do unless you at least could have had the option of taking a mathematics course at uni.

The rise of the bullets from rifles is a few tens of centimeters at MOST, so dont tell me that a high velocity round might miss, either.

Hey hey hey, calm down. If you read the post above, I agreed that the ballistics computer can find lead and all that. My only argument is that on a randomly moving target, it really would be impossible to be dead accurate. If you think about it, if the chopper is going slightly right, and the ballistics computer calculates, shoots, but the second the shell is fired the helo starts banking left, the ballistics computer would be wrong at that point and the shell would miss, specially at long range. See what I mean?

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

Dangit, I had pretty pictures and everything. Well, they're going up anyhow!


Out beyond a thousand meters this might matter, but a Sabot round has a very flat trajectory, and none of the view distances in PR are long enough to give any actual effect from this.



As long as the helicopter remains on its course, it will be hit. That's just physics.


*EDIT*

Also, the elevation/depression values are already correct for tanks.

How fast do the rounds out of a tank travel? Anyone know? IIRC they travel faster than a 50 cal round.

I'd think they'd drop a little bit at 1000m. gravity is at 9.81m/s and it takes lets say there is a 1-2 second flight time, the bullet would be down somewhere around 9-18m of the intended target. That's quite a drop!

I totally agree with you about the "if it stays on it's path, it will hit." But I just think that if we had bullet drop on the tanks, less helo's would be engaged from the MBT main's cannon because you would loose some of the vertical aiming of the turret due to the drop of the shell, even if minuscule. It just sucks to see one aspect of the game kinda become useless because another one is kinda unrealistic. True the draw distance could be better, and that would be nice because then choppers could avoid the tank, but a lot of times the tank can see the chopper but not vice versa. (It's out of the choppers view range, for reasons that are beyond me, not sure why this happens.)

I'm just hoping to keep it realistic since helo's are never shelled IRL and it's really a PITA to gain alt since we have such a small area to operate, and a lot of times we'll get shelled on while descending because we move that much slower when we tap the "s" key. 50's I am not as worried about because that's actually a problem in the battlefield, and I've gotten really good at avoiding 50's. It's just that damn random shellfire that makes me so mad, I can't even see the tank, how does it see me?!

Who knows, maybe giving the chopper more direct speed IS the key to making it balanced. Transport helo's feel slow and are quite easy targets, but then again, we are trying to stay realistically accurate.

I give up, I hate argument threads. People flatout become assholes for no reason.

[Jonny]

A 1500 m/s round (from a C2, incidentally) does not give a chopper much time to bank out of the way, you just start turning and then get hit.

At 1000m it takes (ignoring drag) 0.67 seconds to hit. There is also the pilots reaction times to think about, just realising there is a muzzle flash takes .15 to .3 seconds, if you are looking in the right direction. You then need to think what to do and then actually do it. Even at 3km it is unlikely that the chopper will have banked in time.

So the round WILL hit with PR view distances.

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by Jonny

A 1500 m/s round (from a C2, incidentally) does not give a chopper much time to bank out of the way, you just start turning and then get hit.

At 1000m it takes (ignoring drag) 0.67 seconds to hit. There is also the pilots reaction times to think about, just realising there is a muzzle flash takes .15 to .3 seconds, if you are looking in the right direction. You then need to think what to do and then actually do it. Even at 3km it is unlikely that the chopper will have banked in time.

So the round WILL hit with PR view distances.

(Physics class just flooded back to me...)

I don't understand then, what makes it possible to hit a chopper with a shell so easily in PR and never been done IRL?

[Jonny]

Operating range, air superiority, view distance, heli based weapon systems and training.

[SectorNine50]

Only one that made sense to me in terms of tanks main cannon vs. helo was the view distance... :-\