Attack Helicopters

[Burlock]

the problem with comparing moden day warfare tacktics with whats happeneing is PR, is that when was the last time you heard of a major enguagement of attack helocopeters verses today modern day tanks?

there are videos that show tanks can hit flying object so this is realistic.

Sure attack choppers are great aginst the sort of people america / uk / nato are fighting surrently because they are not fighting against people with advanced weaponry.

Imagine the attack chopper on basra, it would take quite a bit to down that thing on that map as they dont have the weaponry to take it out but put it against a well equiped force and i think its quite realistic how things are now.

tactics change, a tank would struggle to take out a fast moving chopper or one high up enough so thats what you have to adapt to. and if this was RL they would advetialy change there tactics, impliment new technology to counter it or stop using attack choppers in situations where there is a good chance they will get blasted.

[BloodBane611]

Pop-up tactics are not for looking for tanks, they're for killing them. Some SL wants to designate a tank, tells you the area is clear of AA or informs you of enemy AA positions. You position yourself to avoid them, or destroy them before you attack. Then the SL tells you he has designated, you pop over the hill, your gunner fires, you drop back down. Tank then explodes, and everyone goes on their merry way (except for the roasting tank crew).

Theoretically that's how it works. In real life....eh, haven't seen it done, although I have tried designating for helos on quinling. They didn't really notice.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

Theoretically that's how it works. In real life....eh, haven't seen it done, although I have tried designating for helos on quinling. They didn't really notice.

Don't use the LD, just tell them where the tank is and let them take it out on there own

[[R-CON]Alex6714]

I doubt you would need to pop up, what with modern radars and such...


I propose that the laser targeted missiles get a slightly longer ranger for lock on, and that in laser guided mode, vehicles get lit up with the boxes like on the old A-10, they don´t lock on, but it makes the target easier to see. Maybe green boxes, red boxes, triangles. Whatever looks realistic that will help. Because at the moment helis have to engage from very close range, with unstabalized missiles.

[[R-DEV]Mosquill]

Originally Posted by Spaz

Don't use the LD, just tell them where the tank is and let them take it out on there own

+1
Never succesfully used laser targeted mode, It's so much easier to just fire a burst of LGM missiles. And pop-up tactics in PR are suicidal. If you have a good gunner, then just engage flying high and fast from unexpected direction, and let the gunner do the laser-guided work. And don't forget to use flares, they'll save your life a lot of times and you won't even know it.

Back on topic.
One of the main heli-related problems in PR is the view distance. Have you ever seen (IRL) attack helicopters using pop-up tactic 300m away from enemy positions? In PR helicopters cannot engage from far away, if they are seen, then they're already too close and can be shot down easily (even by tanks). IRL apache can hover 2km away and just fire a rocket in laser-guided mode, while staying away from any non-aa threat.
What we need (imo) is a greater view distance on maps like kashan. And it won't affect performance much, at least it didn't on my (poor) PC.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Mosquill

And pop-up tactics in PR are suicidal..

I still don't understand how ppl have problem with this tactic? For me and my pilot it works great!

[Mora]

What we need is increased view distance in the gunner view but only with FLIR or any other IR mode. That should solve the view problem for the A-choppers. This should be possible because the bf2 hacks can do it too...

[[R-DEV]Mosquill]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I still don't understand how ppl have problem with this tactic? For me and my pilot it works great!

Well, maybe on Qinling it works great, I don't know. But on kashan, if you hover behind the hill, enemies on the other side of the hill can hear exactly where you are and aim their L-AT's, 50cals, or whatever they have directly at the place where you're going to pop-up, and when you do, you're pretty much a dead meat.

The whole concept of pop-up is to remain unexpected, but how can you be unexpected if people can hear exactly where you are?

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

Firstly, id like to say thank you for addressing the topic in such a mature and clear manner.

The mention of Quinling's white-out is, as you mentioned, quite problematic. i think this can be rectified, but im unsure was to how easy a task this is. It may require something long and tiresome, such as Lightmapping -Any mapper's worst nightmare-. Im no expert though.


Yes, your assumptions are correct about the engine limitations. We (player and artist) are rather restricted greatly by the lack of proofing of the BF2 engine, not to say EA didnt produce a good product. It just seems little attention is payed to what happens to the product, after it's bought off the shelf.
I myself can recall suggesting working FLIR systems, and it was a false hope.

...mongol...

[DarthDisco]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Mongolian_dude

Firstly, id like to say thank you for addressing the topic in such a mature and clear manner.

The mention of Quinling's white-out is, as you mentioned, quite problematic. i think this can be rectified, but im unsure was to how easy a task this is. It may require something long and tiresome, such as Lightmapping -Any mapper's worst nightmare-. Im no expert though.


Yes, your assumptions are correct about the engine limitations. We (player and artist) are rather restricted greatly by the lack of proofing of the BF2 engine, not to say EA didnt produce a good product. It just seems little attention is payed to what happens to the product, after it's bought off the shelf.
I myself can recall suggesting working FLIR systems, and it was a false hope.

...mongol...

I was afraid of that. As I mentioned above then, perhaps it would be more prudent (and no less realistic) to simply give the helicopter gunner a full colour display, as seen currently on all main battle tank driver positions.

I can verify as fact that both the Cobra and Apache gunships do come equipped with HD TV camera's for long range day vision. As for the Havoc and Z-10, I don't think adding such technology would be a bad thing, nor would it be unrealistic as it is not too much of a stretch to believe that both nations would put such a simple upgrade into their gunships eventually. Simply to extend their operational life.