Commander and Squad Leader kit restrictions.

[M.Warren]

What can I say? It's pretty much clear as to what I'm going to be explaining here. But before I get to that, allow me a moment to elaborate...

As time goes by and Project Reality progresses it seems as if teamwork has not disappeared, but instead deteriorated to a newfound low. This is becoming increasingly more noticeable on servers with minimal to no server administration present to keep people in check. Because of this lack in teamwork, it has forcefully made players think twice before Commanding a team obviously making it simply not worth the effort. It's not suprising why very few people Command anymore.

As being an avid Commander and Squad Leader, I have payed particular attention to the efforts and coordination of teams over a large period of time. Ranging from bearing witness to the worst possible senario unfold, to the greatest amount of teamwork where a Commander does not even need to speak a word. Simply because the team works with such an extreme amount of skill, fluid coordination and situational awareness. But even some of the best squads that had ever been made were brought to a screetching halt by one simple occurance...

What could this occurance be? At first it seems harmless enough as it happens all the time. But when nothing is done about it, it can bring a whole team down. This occurance is when a "lame duck" player becomes a squad leader by choice or by random selection after the loss of the previous leader.

Now when I mean "lame duck", I mean when a player ends up as a Squad Leader taking charge of three to five other people and do not participate in any way to advance the squad in a tactically logical role. Thusly, these players stagnate uselessly taking up the Squad Leader position without an Officer kit and cripple the efforts of an entire team.

These "lame duck" players are generally identified by:

• Refusal of utilizing the Officer kit to establish a rally point for the squad and generally using requested kits as they please.
• Refusal of teamwork and coordinating efforts with thier Commander or Squad Members.
• Refusal of any means of communication with the rest of the squad, by not using their microphones and/or not typing in team/squad chat.
• Refusal of any means of communication with the commander, by not using their microphones and/or not typing in team chat.

Typical "lame duck" Squad Leader, take note of the Marksman kit.


Typical scattered, uncoordinated and teamwork lacking Squad Members. Notice how the squad does not own a Rally Point and the Squad Leader is in the middle of nowhere. Also there is no designated objective marker identified on the map to indicate any intentions of teamwork.

<Note: I was about to take a screenshot of the scores between Squad 1 and Squad 2, but the round had ended abruptly as the last Cache was destroyed. Squad 1 Had something like 3,000+ teamwork points. They had destroyed up to about 5 caches and remained in the city almost all round. Whereas Squad 2 had only accumulated 300+ points by the end of the round and pretty much remained in disarray.>

It's quite obvious that many players have encountered these sorts of people. The problem is that a majority of players that end up as a member under these types of Squad Leaders refuse to do anything about it. Usually ending up becoming lazy themselves and not contributing to anything useful and randomly wander maps as loners on thier own terms. This is not the essence of Project Reality and is by far one of the most ironic if not completely illogical situations to persist. This sort of issue stands right next to the well known case of players being able to One-Man-Armor aswell, but that's a different subject.

But what can we do about this? Currently it remains an uncontrolled situation that negatively impacts Project Reality, taking the purpose of teamwork and coordination and throwing it right out the window. The remedy is quite clear, as it should have been this way a long time ago. Limit the available kits to Commanders and Squad Leaders.

• Commander:
• Only Available Default Kits - Officer, Engineer.
• Only Available Requestable Kits - Officer.

• Squad Leader: (Squad Leaders with two or less Squad Members.)
• Only Available Default Kits - Rifleman (Scope), Rifleman (Ironsight), Medic, Engineer.
• Only Available Requestable Kits - Sniper, Special Operations, Crewman, Pilot.

• Squad Leader: (Squad Leader with three or more Squad Members.)
• Only Available Default Kits - Officer, Engineer.
• Only Available Requestable Kits - Officer, Crewman, Pilot.

If a player automatically becomes squad leader or finally accumulates three or more Squad Members he will be defaulted to selecting the Officer kit upon his death. Upon spawning he will have limited access to requestable kits based upon how many people are in his squad to encourage him to begin leading the squad. If this is not the players intent, he will theoretically be discouraged from remaining a Squad Leader and someone else will have to be designated the new Squad Leader.

Take note that the Engineer kit is the only default kit available to Commanders and Squad Leaders. This is done with good reason though, as to enable the CO or SL to Repair/Demolish a Command Post. This is mostly because the "Demolish Order" does not effect the Command Post. Not only that, but it will also permit Squad Leaders to utilize the Engineer kit while in armored squads if necessary.

The purpose of this is to crack down on "lame duck" players that have completely no intent on performing Squad Leader duties in both moderate and large infantry squads. This will not interfere with 2 man Sniper and/or Spec Ops squads. Also this method will still offer Squad Leaders with the ability to request kits that will allow them to interact with vehicles such as Jets, Helicopters, Tanks, APC's or AAV's. Squads that are structured differently and would have a conflict with these guidelines are most likely "hybrid" squads and thier combat effectiveness is at best... Questionable.

I would expect this to only help the Project Reality experience at this point. Unless people would much rather play with Squad Leaders capable of selecting whatever kits they want, running off with a Marksman kit and getting nothing done in the process.

[Maxfragg]

i don't even think that the squadleader should be able to request a pilot kit, and on the crewman i am unsure.
but otherwise, i strongly support this.
(Flying distracts too much from his dutys, and well, crewman - in a tank squad i think he should be in the turnet of a tank, so a engineer kit would be better for him
The alternative would ofcause be, to make a secound officer kit, that allows also to drive tanks, but has also a wrench like the engi and no pistol and less or no grenades instead. that might be usefull for armor squads

[Jonny]

I dont like it at all, there are too many new rules there.

What if a jeep pins your squad down while you are next to the rally? why stop the SL getting a LAT missile to save his squad?

Surely a bonus for using the officer kit and for having a rally point would be better?

Perhaps a 2 second lower spawn time if you have an officer kit, and another 2 seconds less for the WHOLE SQUAD if you have a rally point and the person respawning has been alive for at least 5 minutes?

Although that does depend on what the DEVs are changing about the spawn system.

[M.Warren]

Originally Posted by Jonny

I dont like it at all, there are too many new rules there.

What if a jeep pins your squad down while you are next to the rally? why stop the SL getting a LAT missile to save his squad?

Good question. Personally if your squad is getting pinned down next to your rally, there are 5 other guys to get a Light Anti-Tank.

Then again... Simply whipping out a Light Anti-Tank on impulse as an Officer to defeat a Jeep just because your nearby an RP doesn't seem that realistic either.

Course if fuzzhead was here he'd most likely be screaming "Suppressive fire!", which is perfectly capable of occuring aswell because having the suppression effect occur while your trying to gun a .50 caliber against 6 squad members doesn't tip well in your favor.

It simply comes down to players getting used to giving up the occasional little "pros" the way it is now, over the usual major "cons" that it has instead.

[ostupidman]

All the suggestion will do is make even fewer people want the SL position. You might be able to force people into getting the kit you want them to have, but you can't force them to play how you see fit.

[Jonny]

You are not going to be able to make people actually LEAD a squad if they are incapable of it. Its just not going to work. Ever.

But I still want my FREEDOM!

[nicoliani]

This is against all rules of RL scenarios. I agree I have many many times joined a squad with a blind SL, the best thing to do here is to radio your team that you are to create a new squad and teamplayers are welcome.

[M.Warren]

Originally Posted by ostupidman

All the suggestion will do is make even fewer people want the SL position. You might be able to force people into getting the kit you want them to have, but you can't force them to play how you see fit.

Originally Posted by Jonny

You are not going to be able to make people actually LEAD a squad if they are incapable of it. Its just not going to work. Ever.

But I still want my FREEDOM!

Look at it this way. If a child learns how to ride a bike with training wheels that's all they'll ever learn to use.

Now if thier parents take the training wheels away the child will obviously throw a fit. Eventually the child will accept it for the way it is, then proceed to get on the bike and learn how to ride it.

Then all of a sudden it wasn't so bad afterall, now was it?

[ostupidman]

Riding a bike is fun. Leading a squad can be anything but, I've led squads before and it was the best PR experience I've ever had....and it has been the worst too. There are always going to be people that don't want to lead other people, they just want to sit back and follow orders. There is also the fact that people will make squads because they are forced too, mostly because they get kicked by a server if they don't or just want to request weapons. Give them the option to do something they enjoy, or will atleast use, and not limit them to what someone else forces on them. I would rather have a blue squad with a SL using some random kit and actually doing something, than that same SL stuck with a dictated kit and doing diddly squat.

[Colt556]

I'm too lazy to read the thread, read most of the main post and I just gotta say this. Why not just add in a vote for squad members to remove a SL from his position? That'd be a lot easier then forcing the SL to go officer n whatnot. Not to mention the asshat SL's can still ruin it all by going engineer, or simply not using his officer kit right.