Mixture of Suggestions

[DeltaFart]

Ok, after reading some suggestions that are being viewed individually I think someone needs to bring them together.

A)Remove the ability to spawn at Rally points because it detracts from the game, turning it into a hunt for the RP game.
Trade off would be the beginning of round spawns staying in, because technically say on Assault on Mestia, the Militia live in the area, so they would be at the tower areas, becasue technically they everywhere.
B) Take away the first aid bag from medic. The way the game is simulating now, it's like you're doing a complete surgery and recovery, and might as well not have been shot at all, except for a bruised ego.
Trade off is giving the medic a scoped rifle, as his first job is to be a soldier, until he needs to patch up a wound. He is trained first as a soldier, than afterwards as a medic (check out training for the game Americas Army). You can "revive" team mates, but instead of having defibrillators, he has a syringe with a pain killer, dulling the pain, and getting him to say 25% health so that he can be somewhat effective in fighting enemy, but he is no longer able to be 100%.
C) with A and B said, I can now mention making a player value his life. As it stands now, he is pretty careful, but will do some silly things ingame, because he knows that 20m behind him is his rally point and he can spawn right there in 10 seconds so he doesn't worry too much. Without ability to fully heal, and spawn right in the thick of things, this will make people actually think before running into that room that he saw some guy go into. This way it's more realistic, because every time a soldier is killed, they have to bring reinforcements up from a reinforcement depot, which takes time. So if you lose all your men at a place like the train depot on fools road. YOu can't just spawn 30 seconds walk from it and continue defense. If you lose that place, unless you get reinforcements in to counter the enemy before they capture the area, you lost it
D)Addition in a quote

Originally Posted by MarineSeaknight

The solution? Add scoped rifles for the kits you always need in an infantry squad like Medic and Ammo... and Take/Keep away scopes from limited kits like L-AT, H-AT, AA, Grenadier, who already possess special kill abilities of their own. This way, it still balances out gameplay and doesn't hurt the all-important spawn-in kits that you need to keep a squad running.

Id say this is a great idea myself, makes so much sense. Just the LAT keeps a scope because the LAT is used for bad situations, and most of the time the guy is engaged with other riflemen, and maybe give the grenadier a scope, because of the same reason.




Now alot of people will whine, you just did a big resuggestion, but I'm looking at the big picture. When you see the thread for scoped medic rifles, you dont think it's a good idea if your an experienced guy who knows all the ins or outs of the mod. Its the same with the removal of the RPs and all that, and the making players want to survive. When looked at individually they might or might not be accepted, but if viewed at once they might make sense and be accepted.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

(1) Remove the ability to spawn at Firebases/Bunkers/Rally points because it detracts from the game, turning it into a hunt for the F/B/RP game.
(2) Trade off could be possibly allowing to spawn at flags, but only until an enemy steps into the area, so that defenders can't just all spawn at one place.

(1):
Ever since v0.4, I have always thought that rally points
helped the game more than anything. They offered a solution
to the "spawn-as-defense-die-from-assaulter-trying-to-capture-
the-flag-wait-another-minute."

(2):
I really wouldn't welcome back the flag-spawning. It sounds
good, but it just won't work out. It can disrupt the dynamic
flow of a battle with pre-planned spawning that the player
had no choice over. While it may turn the game into a little
bit of a rally point hunt, it's much more rewarding to
annihilate the defenders of a point and make them go all
the way back to the main control point and catch a ride back
than to have them appear just a little ways down the road
at the next point.

I don't think anyone would allow something as drastic as
the removal of rally points and company, either Sure, it may
make you want to value your life a little bit more, but it
does so only at the cost of fun. Even in realism games
there has to be a balance so that it's still fun enough
to play.

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

(3) Take away the first aid bag from medic. (4) The way the game is simulating now, it's like you're doing a complete surgery and recovery, and might as well not have been shot at all, except for a bruised ego.

(3):
I strongly disagree. Combat medics and corpsman tend to
have a much more diverse amount of supplies than the
standard field dressing. Taking that away doesn't seem
like the smart thing to do.

(4):
What the game is really "simulating" is the treatment of
a soldier who is still combat effective. He may get knocked
down from enough hits, but if you can get to him before
he loses too much blood and taps out, there's still a
good chance he'll be able to stand back up and hold a rifle.

The only flaw is that we can't have locational damage.
Sorry, no broken bones or severed spines here. Otherwise,
we would have a good use for a Medevac/Casevac scenario.

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

Trade off is giving the medic a scoped rifle, (5) as his first job is to be a soldier, until he needs to patch up a wound. He is trained first as a soldier, than afterwards as a medic (check out training for the game Americas Army).

(5):
Not always the case. Combat lifesavers in the U.S. Army are
riflemen crosstrained with some medical skills whose
primary role is that of the rifleman. Combat medics may
first be trained as riflemen, but their weapon is to be
used only in the defense of himself and his patient, any
other use voids him of the protection of the Geneva
convention. They tend to be more advanced in the treatment
of wounded on the battlefield than the combat lifesavers.

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

You can "revive" team mates, but instead of having defibrillators, (6) he has a syringe with a pain killer, dulling the pain, (7) and getting him to say 25% health so that he can be somewhat effective in fighting enemy, but he is no longer able to be 100%.

(6):
This has been discussed a few times before. Until we get
some new animations and a model, the defibrillators will
have to tide us over.

(7):
Also, only getting him to 25% health would still cause him
to be in the bleeding range. Devs will have to check me
on this one, but I think if it's under 50%, you start
taking damage. In addition, you can't really change the
maximum amount of health a soldier has once he has lost it.

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

(8) [MarineSeaknight Quotation]

(9) Id say this is a great idea myself, makes so much sense. Just the LAT keeps a scope because the LAT is used for bad situations, and most of the time the guy is engaged with other riflemen, and maybe give the grenadier a scope, because of the same reason.

(8):
My opinion is that the base kits should be left as they
are. While it may seem like a good idea, it's always
handy to have ironsights in close quarters situations
than a scope.

(9):
The Light Antitank class could have a scope. After
all, he is a rifleman with a rocket launcher. Grenadiers
could have scopes, too, but I personally don't think it's
such a good idea. They already have an underslung grenade
launcher that packs enough punch to take out lightly armored vehicles
in addition to the mass amounts of casualties on a tightly
packed squad. Allowing them the use of optics seems kind
of questionable.

[Cyrax-Sektor]

^ Well, all Grenadier classes from coalition teams will get a scope eventually. It's the modeling and animating that were a problem.

The Chinese have a scoped grenadier kit already. The M16A4 with UGL has yet to be modeled, so that's why we have the M16A2. The G3 hasn't been given a UGL yet, but there may be a scoped AK-101? But for a proper G3 family, I'd love to see a G3 with UGL. Still, whichever path the team goes, I'll enjoy the new scope. The British already have their main rifle with UGL, but no scope.

[Oldirti]

I have to say i disagree to everything you said, except for what marine suggested, and even there i wouldn't want medic to have a scope. You are asking to effectively reduce the medic to a grunt without grenades. half the team would be bleeding out. Might as well take out field dressings which make less sense.

[[uBp]Irish]

I'll address the issues seperatly..

1. No RP spawning.

ok, i can only see this introduced if you make it so Hummers/the like are on a 2 min respawn. otherwise it will be alot of walking. You're trying to make the game effective and what not, but PR is not a combat simulation, it is still a game, that have people that are retarded. Whereas PR is not oriented towards them, you still have to make this a game, and not a "Oh, you're dead, wait till the round is over".

With the removal of spawning on flags (which was weird anyway), i dont think removing spawn point ability on RPs would be great either...

2. The Medic bag/revive/defibs, like alot of other things in PR are a metaphor for something that we cannot do because of egine limitations.

3. "20m behind him is his rally point and he can spawn right there in 10 seconds"

10 seconds. thats amazing. what hack are you using, because i usually get 30+... even then i still value my life if i know my RP is near, because the flag i'm trying to defend is about to drop, and those 30+ seconds i'm respawning is 30+ seconds the enemy has the ability to go in and have one less person to worry about... no thanks.

[Sirsolo]

The problem with all of this doesnt lie in the fact that it's unrealistic.. it lies in the fact that there are IDIOTS in this game that'll run over you.

"Oh.. sorry.. you were almost to the frontlines too =( Oh well, I cant revive you, so you'll have to spawn back at the main and try again =D"

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

checked the allready suggested suggestions sticky,ignore

[DeltaFart]

Ok than, let's see what can be done to change the suggestions so it is more favorable.
I was seriously wondering why it took you so long doc haha thats a big reply.
THanks for all the older guys who looked at this.

And make sure guys you realize that because of how big this suggestion is, that it is a flexible discussion, I will change it to what is good and most approved in discussions.

[Oldirti]

well then, ill say this:

1. Keep rally points, they are a MAJOR facite of this game, and if they got taken out, i would quit.

2.keep the bag, take away the field dressings, this way not being to uber.No, don't give the medic a scope, this will promote people just laying back. First off, the unscoped rifle is better for CQB which the medic should be doing, and scope+medic bag= ultimate long range soldier. Healing is fine as is, if we did as you suggested, we would have the whole team at 25% just bleeding out, being completely useless.

3) i would just want to shoot myself, if i got seperated from my squad leader with no way back. I'm just dumbfounded. I would NEVER want to go anywhere, for fear of death, then i would get very bored cause no one is doing anything, and i'd just cry.

4) to marine's suggestion, now that i think of it, i don't like it. Realistically most people have scopes, but taking them away from the other kits doesn't sound good realistically , and giving it to the medic doesn't sound good gameplay wise.