Tank/APC/50 Cal Bullet Drop

[[uBp]Irish]

all you helo pilots need to learn how to play your vehicle.

I have no idea how many times i've dropped blackhawks on kashan or hips that just think they can fly their way into bunker with a get-out-of-jail free card.

You fly in, on a direct linear path, slowly descending. I can lead you so well that it's not even funny how pathetic it is that you cry on these forums that tank cannons are overpowered, when your skill isnt even at the point to match.

here's a thought.


1. get some H-AT to destory me.
2. Get a squadleader/spec ops to laze my tank, thus leading to my ultimate destruction at the hands of the cobra/havok or frogfoot/a-10
3. Maybe drop off troops BEHIND COVER, instead of in an open area where i have direct line of sight as you fly in.


Really comes down to the fact you're crying about how effective tanks are, when you're not even using your transport or even attack helo to the fullest extent...

1.Fly low and fast, or high and know where your drop zone is.
2.Make sure you know where the hell your dropzone is and if there are any enemy contacts around. No pilot worth is weight in gold in real life(cause isnt that what PR is trying to emulate) would fly into a hostile landing zone where there are enemy tanks that can destory him...same reason why you dont drop people off at a flag and then proceed to get AT'd to death. cry about that why dont you....
3. Find an alternate landing zone that provides you some visual cover away from the enemy force. might take your troops longer to get to the battlefield than i direct insertion, but it's better than you getting dropped as soon as you land, and all those troops dieing with you.
4. God Forbid, maybe you should actually bob and weave on your flight approach than making it so easy to lead you straight to your landing zone. Add in some turns or zigzags, and even as miniscule as they might be, will throw off a good tank gunner.


Holy Cow, people actually have to use skill in a game, what a concept. Learn to play your vehicle before you cry about someone else's vehicle that they have spent time playing in. You learn the limitations of your vehicle and adapt the situation to overcome those weaknesses.

A gunner on a tank has a maximum degree elevation of his turret to about 35 or 45 degress.. maybe 50even. What do you do? Fly above us and land somewhere else. Kashan has a multitude of hills, and usually most tanks either roam, or sit in the mountain range running east/west in the middle. Use this to your advantage, if you spot the tank, gain altitude and fly over us, where our cannon is at the weakest point. if we're on one side of the mountain, fly on the other side of the mountain and drop the troops behind us since it takes time to traverse the cannon. You fly fast, so use that to your advantage, and bob and weave in an out to screw up our aim... seriously.. common sense.

Stop getting on the bandwagon about how crazy tanks are when you dont even have the skill to compete.


/rant off.

[snotmaster0]

Irish, I see your point, and I agree. But what about the other weapons and vehicles(50 cals, etc)? Also, it seems that what your talking about implies a huge amount of skill on the choppers part, and very little on the tankers part (my understanding is that currently it's point, shoot, kaboom with the tank cannon). We're suggesting that we make tank shooting more than just point and shoot, and add in a skill factor. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[[uBp]Irish]

chopper flying is a skill no disagreement there.
tank gunning is point and shoot, but gotta add in the "leading the target" value and how much distance ahead of the target you have to be. the round travels fast, but with the limited ammo that a tank has, you gotta be dead on.


PR is full of metaphors. ex.. the fact that medics have a bag instead of a syringe or scissors or a defib that can bring you back to life. I'm trying to think of other "metaphors" that you see in game, but i'm blanking (got hit in the head with a soccer ball..could be it)

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by zangoo

if tanks can zero there gun with a computer and we cant do that in pr the next closes thing is removing bullet drop.

But it completely avoids a HUGE point, that you only lase at that MOMENT. When you have perfect accuracy on a helo moving away it's completely unlike the balistics computer using the lase system. It would be damn near impossible to hit a helo with a the MBT main cannon IRL, and I think that's a HUGE point that needs to be touched on.

I do all of those things Irish, and I consider myself a skilled helo pilot, so don't flame me like that. It's still stupid how many times I will get tagged from a tank's main cannon I can't even see while flying at full speed AWAY at an angle while 13 feet off the ground at 800m away. Tanking is stupid easy in this mod, even for a noob. My buddy went 35 and 0 with me driving and him gunning the first time he ever played PR in a tank.

You tell me one tank gunner who can hit a target moving away at 150 mph with a single Sabot or HEAT round IRL. It's simple, the balistics computer cannot handle live info like that because it is a constantly changing variable. When the shell travels like a laser, anything is possible. It's a "metaphor," sure, but it's one that really takes away from the realistic nature of the game. The medpack is used because it would take tedious hours upon hours of coding to make it so we could do surgery in the battlefield. But in the medic's case, at least it doesn't take away from the reality of the game too much, since you have to sit still like you are actually performing what is needed.

The laser that we call the MBT's main cannon is unrealistic enough that it actually starts affecting other aspects of the mod which is a huge problem. Honestly, just add bullet drop, and lines in the scope with distances on the lines and a skilled tanker can still do his job REALISTICALLY.

Think about it, you point the cannon at the target, read the distance (just like lasing) then adjust the height to the notch that says 600m and fire. Can't be that hard since the turret reacts so fast to mouse movements. At least it will make firing on helo's hard enough to the point that it won't be done unless it's a guaranteed kill. (Ie. Hovering, landed, being stupid, etc.)

[[R-CON]nedlands1]

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

But it completely avoids a HUGE point, that you only lase at that MOMENT.

Pretty sure if a laser can track at a target 100's of metres away while the laser is traveling near or over the speed of sound, in the case of a jet, the same can be said for the range finding laser on a MBT when faced with a relatively slow flying helicopter.

[[R-DEV]Mosquill]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]nedlands1

Pretty sure if a laser can track at a target 100's of metres away while the laser is traveling near or over the speed of sound, in the case of a jet, the same can be said for the range finding laser on a MBT when faced with a relatively slow flying helicopter.

IRL, you can't use ballistic computer's adjustments AND lead an air target at the same time. Ballistics computer won't lead the target for you, but if you will, then the range finder's laser won't be on the aircraft anymore, so it won't be able to determine range. And ballistics can't be calculated without range. So you can't hit a moving air target, unless of course you'll calculate the bullet drop your self.

But that's afaik, I'm no tank expert.

[Jay]

I recall reading somewhere (I think it was one of the DEVS that said it) that tanks, IRL, can calculate the speed of a moving object and adjust the turret, so that all the gunner has to do is fire. I also remember in that same thread, someone posted a video of a tank shooting down a flying unmanned drone (it was a training exercise) that was a fair distance away.

[Jonny]

Isn't the entire point of a balistics computer to calculate BOTH lead and elevation? You have a lazer marker on a seperate axis which the gunner aims, computer aims the gun, gunner says when to fire? Or am I missing something?

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Isn't the entire point of a balistics computer to calculate BOTH lead and elevation? You have a lazer marker on a seperate axis which the gunner aims, computer aims the gun, gunner says when to fire? Or am I missing something?

Lase systems cannot determine lead on a multi variable changing object, it's just not possible.

Helicopters can change course on all 3 axis' at a moments notice, there is no way the ballistics computer would be able to calculate that in time. It would literally have to steer the round in the air unless it could tell the future. The tanker has to adjust for lead, the ballistics comp just does the distance IIRC.

And in terms of the tank shooting down the drone, I can guarantee it was just a test, and that the drone was not changing more than one axis at a time.

Also, one more thing, without bullet drop on the MBT's main cannon, it significantly raises the tank's firing range. If there was bullet drop, I betcha 3/4 (or more) of the shots people make right now against helo's wouldn't be possible because the tank couldn't adjust for bullet drop enough. The whole idea of perfect accuracy is just silly in my eyes.

[Jonny]

Well I probably could calculate the lead, its not that hard.

if you use values for r = distance to the object, θ1 = angle from front of tank, clockwise, θ2 = angle above horizontal.

differentiating all gives you a nice set of equations for the objects motion, once you have them you simply find an angle of elevation for the barrel and angle from the front of the tank where the lines describing object motion and shell motion intersect at the same velue of t, then you have a shot that takes lead into account.

Dont underestimate maths, epecially when computers are involved.