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Old 07-29-2012, 06:07 PM   #201
Alex6714

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

To be honest, if the argument for the removal of the missiles is because "it takes no skill", you might aswell remove them from AA vehicles too. And Firebases. The engine has a limit, it has to be a bit simplified and I would argue that there is some skill in using the AA missiles even if it is easier than guns but I still can't see how removing them would make any positive difference at all and in my opinion it would make it worse.

"Today's forecast calls for 30mm HE rain with a slight chance of hellfires"

"oh, they're fire and forget all right...they're fired then they forget where the target is"
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:14 PM   #202
CanuckCommander

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex6714 View Post
To be honest, if the argument for the removal of the missiles is because "it takes no skill", you might aswell remove them from AA vehicles too. And Firebases. The engine has a limit, it has to be a bit simplified and I would argue that there is some skill in using the AA missiles even if it is easier than guns but I still can't see how removing them would make any positive difference at all and in my opinion it would make it worse.
I don't think removing the AA missiles is the answer also. One solution would be to increase the flare count up to 60 from 30 for the attack helicopters and also increase the rate of fire/deployment for the flares. Right now it shoots 5 flares per button press, not concurrently, but in a quick sequence around the chopper. The pattern of dispersal is fine, but the ROF is too slow to defeat missiles since the helicopter is much slower than say a jet.

Instead, it should be changed to unlimited per button press, kind of like an automatic machine gun, so that all flares may be dumped in a matter of seconds in emergencies. I would say that when an enemy attack helicopter fires both missiles at you, that would be an emergency. The ROF should be fast enough that all flares may be dumped in a few seconds, but slow enough that pilots can fire a burst of 3 flares in normal situations or 1 at a time by tapping the button during ground attack runs.

In addition, even though the dispersal pattern is fine, the flare's speed of ejection may be too slow currently to distract missiles AWAY from the chopper because by the time the missiles get there, the flares may only be a few short feet away from the chopper. Therefore, this should be looked into and the flares must fly away from the chopper at a much faster speed to increase the distance of the countermeasures from the actual aircraft.

TLDR:

1) Increase flare count to 60
2) Increase firing rate of flares dramatically
3) Increase flare object's ejection speed away from aircraft
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:40 AM   #203
[R-DEV]Rudd
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

could a compromise be to increase the lock on time for helicopter bourne AA missiles?


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Old 07-30-2012, 07:51 AM   #204
Stealthgato

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

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Originally Posted by Alex6714 View Post
and in my opinion it would make it worse.
How?

123


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Old 07-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #205
=HCM= Shwedor

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

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Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
could a compromise be to increase the lock on time for helicopter bourne AA missiles?
And what would this accomplish? People fire them without locks and they will hit almost every time without fail. The AA missiles in this game are bugged beyond belief, flares do NOTHING. You can setup with the best attack angle from a perfect distance on an unsuspecting enemy helicopter, and still lose because both your missiles missed with perfect locks and the enemy didn't even pop flares. And the enemy can win by twitching and firing without a lock when you are popping flares like a mad man. The handhelds are especially bad on maps like Kokan, quite a few H guys are reluctant to even fly when they know a Taliban player who knows to use the Stinger and fire without a lock, all you have to do is lead the target a tiny bit. The AA is a joke in this game. It would be simply better to give every helicopter the same level of armor and HP as the Huey if you are going to retain AA rockets, then the game would actually be enjoyable when flying attack helicopters but yet not too unbalanced.

Even if helicopters did not have AA, people with myself included, would still attempt to kill the enemy helicopters. It just wouldn't be quite as buggy with the AA rockets gone.

shwedor
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:58 PM   #206
illidur
Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

for handheld aa they should all have the quality of the strela. no need for different performance of the different models. the strela i believe isn't broken for whatever reason... or at least people dont fire it without hud lock hoping to kill aircraft.

perhaps the stinger should be reported in the bug section?
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:41 PM   #207
40mmrain
Supporting Member

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by =HCM= Shwedor View Post
And what would this accomplish? People fire them without locks and they will hit almost every time without fail. The AA missiles in this game are bugged beyond belief, flares do NOTHING. You can setup with the best attack angle from a perfect distance on an unsuspecting enemy helicopter, and still lose because both your missiles missed with perfect locks and the enemy didn't even pop flares. And the enemy can win by twitching and firing without a lock when you are popping flares like a mad man. The handhelds are especially bad on maps like Kokan, quite a few H guys are reluctant to even fly when they know a Taliban player who knows to use the Stinger and fire without a lock, all you have to do is lead the target a tiny bit. The AA is a joke in this game. It would be simply better to give every helicopter the same level of armor and HP as the Huey if you are going to retain AA rockets, then the game would actually be enjoyable when flying attack helicopters but yet not too unbalanced.

Even if helicopters did not have AA, people with myself included, would still attempt to kill the enemy helicopters. It just wouldn't be quite as buggy with the AA rockets gone.

we're talking about AAMs, not AA, fucking hell. Secondly, to say flares do nothing is beyond retarded, do you even play this game? If flares are out, the missile will ALWAYS track the flare, and explode on it, so if youre flying slow youre near your flare and the missile will still detonate near you. Far be it from you to think that flying faster would save you, no it is the game's fault.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:58 PM   #208
SShadowFox

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

Okay, remove them, let the pilots hunt themselves, I'm bored to see that in every CAS video (I love 'em) when they find an enemy attack helicopter the first reaction should be RTB, then tell to an AA to try to take out the helicopter, then return to battle, but what they do? Start fucking using hydras, hellfires and 30mm to take out each other, then they start yelling 'YEA, you going down, you going down, you sucka, bit**".

The perfect CAS pilot should stay at a high altitude letting the gunner do the work, returning to base every time they spot enemy attack helicopter, but what I get when I play PR is a pilot moving up to about 2 kilometers of altitude then start going down and shooting hydras, hellfires and 30mm without a laser and without see the enemy because of the fucking smoke of the explosions.

Yes remove and see a war happening in the skies.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:45 PM   #209
Stemplus

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by SShadowFox View Post
when they find an enemy attack helicopter the first reaction should be RTB, then tell to an AA to try to take out the helicopter, then return to battle, but what they do?

The perfect CAS pilot should stay at a high altitude letting the gunner do the work, returning to base every time they spot enemy attack helicopter, but what I get when I play PR is a pilot moving up to about 2 kilometers of altitude then start going down and shooting hydras, hellfires and 30mm without a laser and without see the enemy because of the fucking smoke of the explosions.
1. If you run away when you see enemy gunship then you just get a rocket to the ass.

2. "Perfect CAS pilot should stay at high altitude letting the gunner .." ... and get a TOW/HAT to the face

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
we're talking about AAMs, not AA, fucking hell. Secondly, to say flares do nothing is beyond retarded, do you even play this game? If flares are out, the missile will ALWAYS track the flare, and explode on it, so if youre flying slow youre near your flare and the missile will still detonate near you. Far be it from you to think that flying faster would save you, no it is the game's fault.
Well, when the rocket gets multiple heat signatures then it goes to the closest one, which means that the rockets only work like you said when they are between you and the rocket.


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Old 07-31-2012, 02:47 PM   #210
Stemplus

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Default Re: Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

<COULD AN ADMIN REMOVE THIS>?


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