Suggestions to improve Insurgency.

[Dev1200]

Originally Posted by Dv83r

To all of the developers, I know you are watching and reading this thread. Please take into account the current situation of Insurgency and then compare it to my suggestions. Humbly I ask that you test these suggestions on a public level to find out how these would turn out in the end.

How would banning players that happen to kill a civilian make the game better? Remove players from the BLUFOR team, cause instability in the team's playercount, assets, etc. Basically cause frustration over little gain. You can still destroy caches if you kill civilians. Having a cache location spotted makes the entire blufor team swarm around it, and since the marker is so accurate now, it makes it obvious to which building it is in, and not guesswork and searching.

Players and their team are already punished brutally if you happen to kill a civilian. No limited kits means no taking assets, medic kits, etc. High respawn time, reducing score, etc.


What you want is for players to understand that killing civilians is wrong. If so, play on a teamwork server, like PRTA. People that actually know how to play the game usually play there

[USMCMIDN]

Did anyone read my post I made earlier about that round on the H server... Leave it the way it is... if you kill civis it is a huge downfall to the good guys.

[BenHamish]

Originally Posted by Dev1200

I almost choked on my eggnog reading this line. If you've read the manual, which I'm sure you haven't, it would read:

If you shoot civilians outside of these rules, you will face several penalties:
After your next death you will respawn 120 seconds later per civilian shot
(stacks up to 5 minutes additional delay)
You will not be able to request any kits for 10 minutes
Your score is reduced to 0 and the kill will not be listed on the scoreboard
Your team loses 10 intelligence points

Mainly 10 intel points, per civilian kill. That means if you die as a martyr 5 times as a civilian, which isn't a difficult feat mind you, the enemy team will have to kill 50 more insurgents in order to acquire intel. Now, have a whole squad doing this, and you get instant profit.

They are hardly punishments.. Basically you have time to go take a leak, and can't get a request kit. What request kits do you actually need? It's already fish in a barrel.

Intelligence points are irrelevant from what i've witnessed, and as for a virtual score - nobody cares. The K:D is what people care about on Blufor, it's why you play Ins as Blue.

USMCMIDN mate, good on you for going out there and being a Civvy again for a refresher. After that though, don't you feel that being a civvy is a bit pointless? They have no effect on Blufor tactics (which is why I thought they were in the game, to make Ins different and unique).


Edit: Dev1200, the same tactics that USMCMIDN found wrt civvys on ]H[ occur on PRTA. People know morally that killing civvys is wrong, but this is a game and there are no immediate (or arguably prolonged) negative effects, so the civvy is useless at preventing enemy fire.

Also, to whoever mentioned 'collateral damage', that isn't a consequence of war, per se. It's a public relations name for a consequence of war - civilian casualties.

[Dv83r]

To maybe change people's opinions, everyone who is reading this thread start playing as a Collaborator whenever you get the chance. After then, please respond back with these things like USMCMIDN mentioned.

Originally Posted by USMCMIDN

Just played Basra on the H server as Insurgent... Thought it b funny to b a unarmed insurgent and civi the whole game trying to get killed...

Easy ways I took advantage of the punishments given to the good guys was... Go in cashes, run into mortar fire, stand in front of shooting insurgents, throwing rocks, dropping my kit and turning my back to UK making it seem like I m hostile, popping my head up above a brick wall with unarmed insurgent... I was killed nearly all of this...

Possible exploits-

Mortars destroying the insurgents have 2 civis run into the fire that would kick the mortar team member killing u... I did this a lot this match...Actually having the mortars stop in numerous occasions because one guy killed me like 4 or 5 times bad for intel points.

I was killed by the tank like 10 times... he did not target me but was firing into buildings with RPGs in them.... Tank gunner was Psycho I think... he killed me accidentally a lot. No way he knew I was there... I hid behind the walls. Again gunner kick tank has no more gun= no protection =death

Same with APC... But often I think those guys shot me on purpose... IDK Y I think this but I purposely showed my hands up and they still killed me... But not all the gunners were like this... So I sat in front of guys with RPGs shooting at the APCs... We killed 1 because the gunner did not fire because of the civi... Again if u want an APC gone just have a civi get killed.

Numerous infantry shot me when I had unarmed kit simply ducking just showing my head made it look like I was still a combatant... U want a saw gunner or sniper u can not kill just do this...

Conclusion

Honestly they engage civis a lot in game but I was killed as a civi or unarmed insurgent close to 50 times... The overall intel points for the UK that match was a little above 2000. Only 2 cashes showed up and it was a long game with the insurgents being the victor because of the amount of civis bing killed. There were 2 other civis I saw Tim2Chins and some other guy. With us 3 being killed the UK was not able to get intel points and the game was lost for them.

Maybe we should leave it the way it is except the ticket loss of 1 ticket for every civi being killed. Same effect now but it gives more incentive for them not to kill civis because of the ticket loss. And the match did last pretty long because nothing was really happening because they could not find cashes.

My 2 cents on me purposely trying to exploit the civi role. I may of healed 1 guy the whole game. My point is I know it is not supposed to be played like that and actually having the civi as a collaborator helping the insurgents but if you want someone gone from the game just do what I did and the other 2 civis. I think that half the time I was actually killed by mistake. Like I said I was killed like 50 times that game.

Say which server you played on, how you played, possible exploits, and then a conclusion. This would help me in writing up new suggestions to get around these exploits.

[Haji with a Handgun]

This idea is no good. As a collaborator I constantly throw myself into the path of AAVs, Tanks, Humvees, anything that can martyr me. If all the players who kill me get banned then where does the server pop go?

[BenHamish]

It should also be mentioned that the manual describes the Civvy kit but doesn't say what it's uses are. I'm therefore presuming that it's purpose is to cause as much damage to Blufor as possible in any way possible (inluding griefing tanks).

What is the Civvy kit for?

In my view it is to change the game dynamic from the conventional warfare found on other maps, and to immerse the Blue player more by having to choose carefully what he shoots at.

At the mo I think it fails.. But my problem may be that i've got the wrong end of the stick. Let us know what you think it's for guys and then we can work towards a set goal.

[Dv83r]

Originally Posted by Haji with a Handgun

This idea is no good. As a collaborator I constantly throw myself into the path of AAVs, Tanks, Humvees, anything that can martyr me. If all the players who kill me get banned then where does the server pop go?

Remember they have to kill you three times then take into the account all of the other suggestions I typed out, and even more I will type up to combat martyrdom. If you combine all of these suggestions Haji, they would make a lot more sense than alone.

[USMCMIDN]

Originally Posted by BenHamish

They are hardly punishments.. Basically you have time to go take a leak, and can't get a request kit. What request kits do you actually need? It's already fish in a barrel.

Intelligence points are irrelevant from what i've witnessed, and as for a virtual score - nobody cares. The K:D is what people care about on Blufor, it's why you play Ins as Blue.

USMCMIDN mate, good on you for going out there and being a Civvy again for a refresher. After that though, don't you feel that being a civvy is a bit pointless? They have no effect on Blufor tactics (which is why I thought they were in the game, to make Ins different and unique).


Edit: Dev1200, the same tactics that USMCMIDN found wrt civvys on ]H[ occur on PRTA. People know morally that killing civvys is wrong, but this is a game and there are no immediate (or arguably prolonged) negative effects, so the civvy is useless at preventing enemy fire.

Also, to whoever mentioned 'collateral damage', that isn't a consequence of war, per se. It's a public relations name for a consequence of war - civilian casualties.

Well my point was the good guys lost because of the civi kills. They were a good team a very well stacked team and after the civi kills they simply did not get the intel needed to win and lost.

[mat552]

Originally Posted by BenHamish

What is the Civvy kit for?

The stated goal for the Collaborator kit is to force Coalition players to think before they pull the trigger, to represent forces that aren't out and out helping the Insurgents and people that might not look good on CNN.

I again remind everyone that there are no Civilians in PR. None. Zip. Nada.

The Civilian Collaborator kit is just that, a collaborator. They have picked their side, they've seen or heard what the coalition forces can do, and they've still chosen not to leave peacefully. They are members in the insurgency and should be treated as such.

You won't ever be able to force players to feel remorse or guilt over their targets in PR. It's a numbers game, pure and simple, no morality besides what we bring in. It's fun to roleplay, but only if everyone's playing by the same rules. If you, as a collaborator, do something absolutely retarded like play dance dance revolution directly in front of a tank, you're not going to last very long.

[Bringerof_D]

these all sound great, my only objections is #8 particularly about hide outs. obviously IRL a hide out isnt something an insurgent wouldbuild at the beginning of the fight, but something that would have been pre established weeks to months prior to the conflict. it is used to simulate a borrowed basement of your friends house or the like. Thus needing to shovel it already compensates for the need to supply it