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Old 04-07-2005, 10:42 PM   #1
Ugly Duck

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Default Real Armor on Armored vehicles

Well, BF2 is said to have penetration values. Guess what that means, real armor... or so I hope. My idea is a relatively simple one, I think, but I am no coder.
So the idea is this, you will of course have the tank, but the outside shell will not actualy take damage. It is the armor of the tank, it is not vital, and should not be required for the tank to operate. This armor shell that is the tank model would be coded so that only specific anti tank weapons would be able to penetrate it, and certain areas would be thicker as well. Inside of this shell would be the real "hit boxes."
Placed in vital places, when struck these would cripple the tank, but not kill the crew members. So if a shell struck the rear side of an M1A2 it would first penetrate that armor, and then strike the engine causing the tank to be immobalized and slowly deteriorating eventualy ending in the crews death without any visual explosion( aside from some smoke bellowing from the engine/hatches and maybe an occasional flame or two).
The next part is the crew, IRL a crew can be killed without killing the tank. This happens on occasion when flying a helo or even more so when riding in a hummve or something exposing you to out side fire. Tanks would be similar, with the crew actualy seated inside at the locations they would really be at. When a tank shell entered such a crew compartment it would explode and the resulting splash damage would kill the crew. And then produce the same effects as posted in the previous paragraph.
Finaly, my last handy little bonus that comes from actualy putting the soldiers IN the tank it's self instead of actualy becoming a part of it. Hatches! If the crewers could be situated properly, opening a closing a hatch would allow them to either have an inside or outside view. Achieved by simply moving the player model up or down in tandem with with the hatch opening and closing coded to the up/down ramp keys. Hopefully a more advanced system would allow the driver/commander to use an actual periscope when underneath, but I think a simple overlay portraying a periscopes view when the hatch is down would be a good start.
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Old 04-07-2005, 11:57 PM   #2
solodude23

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I agree 100% is all ways.
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Old 04-08-2005, 01:04 AM   #3
Figisaacnewton

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Great, i posted all this before i read that, now i feel dumb:

Quote:
I was kinda talking about this earlier. To have the crew be hurt, you have to give the tank an actual interior, no vanilla bf game does this.

if there is an actaul interior, and players are in that interior, then you can have stuff like this happen (becuase of material penetration, i hope to god it will work with tank shells and not just bullets):

heap shell hits at weak point - makes graphic effect of lots of smoke, fire, what a heap shell hitting a tank looks like, (not what harms crew, it hurts the tank's health though)

shell (which made an explsion passing through, but is still existent) continues untill it hits the inside of the tank on the other side (side opposite from where it entered) and doesn't pass through, makes another explosion (smaller graphics), this one kills the crew, as they are actually inside, and are actually killed

we are left with a tankthat is on fire, unusable (all the equipment is fried/melted, health is 0) with a large scorch mark on it (if possible) and a bunch of dead bodies inside.

Also, it could be coded so tanks work like this (again thanks to new material penetration and richochets and such):

Rounds do penetrate, or they dont, tank's health is 0, or 100. IRL a tank shell doesnt 'kind of hurt the tank' it either penetrates, or it doesnt.

so, with new engine, make it so the shell penetrates only if if impacts the correct part of the tank, at the corrret angle, at the correct speed.

that's more realistic.

you could also code in things like the ammo cache, a special little box inside the tank. if shell passing throug the tank hits that: BAM, we don't have to wait for the explsion as with the fire slowly getting to the fuel and ammo with a regular shot, the tank blows up, right on the spot.

and the tank's wreckage should stay for as long a moddibly (sp?) possible. I hate when the 40 ton chunk of steel im using for cover desides to vaporize.

also, to differentiate between heap and sabot shells, they can work as such:

heap shells penetrate only at more perfect angles, and only the weaker points in the armor, but they kill the whole crew along with the tank every time.

sabot shells (or adfps or whatever it is) penetrate at more angles and more areas, but only kill the crew members that are unfortunately litteraly caught in the path of the shell through the tank (or if it hits the ammo cache)

phew. my thoughts on tanks for the day.
basically edit mine so that it says that the tank takes damage from sabot shells only when it hits the engine (health to 0, stopped, on fire, crew hurt only includes those literraly in the way of the round) or ammo cache(BAM everyone dies, tank goes boom) instead of always doing damage whenever it penetrates, and we just said the same thing. I like the idea of only being hurt if it hits the engine of the ammo cache better than mine. but i still like the crew getting blown away and the tank being imobalized by a heap round penetrating through anywhere.

something else to add: how about only being able to exit the tank via

a) only a certain position can enter/exit the tank. like you have to be standing right on the hatch to get into position 1, then you have to move to let others get in, etc. and position 1 is the only one that you can exit the tank from, and you appear right on the hatch (and it only works when the hatch is open)

or

b) the tank interior is done so well, that thier is actaully a ladder from the hatch down into the interior of the tank, where you can then squirm around to enter a position, but have to be right in the seat of the gunner to get in the gunner position, and no switching positions! then, to get out, you exit, appear right where you were, inside the tank, and actually have to crawl out of the seat, find the ladder, run away from the tank etc.


I like b better, don't know if its possible though.


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Old 04-30-2005, 09:03 PM   #4
HarbingerCMT
Default Good Ideas

[b) the tank interior is done so well, that thier is actaully a ladder from the hatch down into the interior of the tank, where you can then squirm around to enter a position, but have to be right in the seat of the gunner to get in the gunner position, and no switching positions! then, to get out, you exit, appear right where you were, inside the tank, and actually have to crawl out of the seat, find the ladder, run away from the tank etc. ]

I think this is a great idea but, I'd be too concerned that this level of detail would turn folks off. Most modern battle tanks have five positions...driver, gunner, loader, radio man, and commander. It might be a little tedious to have to cycle through all those positions to get in, or out. And what would happen if while in the tank, the gunner and driver wanted to switch? "O.K. lets all get out and try to figure out the right order to get in." I'm not flaming your idea, I just don't think it would really add anything.

I'm hoping the Reality team spends more time on realistic balistics and damage modeling than getting too boged down on stuff like vehicle positions. Besides, I'm sure many of you are like me and see this mod as the only reason to purchase what is sure to be another arcade shooter loosely based in reality. The longer this mod stays in development, the longer we'll be using tank guns with the trejectory of a nurf gun

-Harbinger[/quote]
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Old 05-01-2005, 02:43 AM   #5
Figisaacnewton

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Honestly I don't see how level of detail would turn realism oreinted people away from the mod, but that remains to be seen.

For tank positions, i'm pretty sure its going to be like DCR: Commander/Driver is one position, main gunner is another position, and top gunner is another position. Radio man would be pointless in BF2, everyone has VOIP and access to radio commands. Loader...Boy wouldnt that be fun, what would you have, click to reload shell?

Ideally, since there are no entering/exiting animations, the most realistic thing would be to have the area where you can enter the vehicle be as close as possible to where you will be when in/operating in that position.

But this can't be done too well, as all the doors and cockpits and everything are closed in every vehicle... oh well, we can try...

maybe you could actually get an animation for entering and exiting. I doubt it, but it would be sweet.


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Old 05-01-2005, 10:35 AM   #6
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Maybe animations will be a bit easier in BF2. The BF2 editor comes with animations and such. Operation Flashpoint ahs like a half animation when entering vehicles.(not all) When they enter a tank they climb up the side of it and dissapear when they get to the hatch.
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Old 05-01-2005, 12:32 PM   #7
Figisaacnewton

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seriously! i didnt think that was possible at all in the bf engine! is that mod for 42 or bfv?


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Old 05-01-2005, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figisaacnewton
seriously! i didnt think that was possible at all in the bf engine! is that mod for 42 or bfv?
That's an entirely separate game, Operation Flashpoint. Also one of the best games I've ever played.
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Old 05-01-2005, 12:43 PM   #9
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Yup, different game, and what an awsome game it is. I was referring to the BF2 Editor though, it looks pretty capable.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:15 PM   #10
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With all this talk about armor, I've been wondering if Battlefield already has an important feature for the Helicopters. Most modern day helicopters have realitivly light armor to keep the weight down. The heavyist armored part of a helicopter is the bottom. When a Helicopter takes small arms fire(M16A2, AK-47, M60E3...), an experinced pilot will tilt the helicopter so that the brunt of the fire is hitting the bottom and the passengers and helicopter are realitivly safe. If this type of armor is/could be incorperated into PR that would be awsome, and good pilots could really come in handy.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR ALLIES
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