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Old 06-17-2010, 03:20 PM   #1
ytman
Default Conventional Army Mine Increase

Suggestion: Increase Combat Engineer's mine amount from 1-2 and increase the amount of Mines per player in, AAS mode, to 60. (Only Conventional Factions. Not for Tali, Militia, Hamas, and Insurgents.)

Reason: To create a new set of tactics for AAS mode games. To simulate the ability of Armies to place and use minefields. To grant the Engineer/His Squad Leader/The Commander more potential.

Estimated Effect: The rate and volume of which a team can place down mines increases two fold. You rearm twice as fast, and can place twice as many mines at a time.

For large 4km maps such an increase in volume is necessary to justify the use of the weapon inside its IRL function in Main Standing Armies. Otherwise, as maps get larger, choke points become less and less forced, and more land must be covered.

Theoretically, on maps like Jabal_2, where the map is completely Asymetrical, this would enable a disruptive force to the supply route of the defending force and also aid in the ability for the defending force to maintain its position.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:29 PM   #2
Jonny
Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

The current placement method is entirely unrealistic. An increase in the amount of mines would not do anything to help this, and would hardly have any effect at all as the full number of possible mines (20, IIRC) are rarely (if ever) placed.

I think Hotrod (or it could be someone else, I cant remember who it was) has already suggested a much better method of mine laying than is currently used or that you have suggested, based on his experiances with one of the RL armed forces.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:37 PM   #3
ytman
Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
The current placement method is entirely unrealistic. An increase in the amount of mines would not do anything to help this, and would hardly have any effect at all as the full number of possible mines (20, IIRC) are rarely (if ever) placed.
I agree entirely that the method is unrealistic, however, the intent of this suggestion is only to empower the mine laying strategy, which as you say, never, or rarely ever, happens. If there comes another method of mine laying in the future so be it. I'd actually like a link.

The only reason you never see the full number of mines now is due to a lack of planning and desire. To lay a minefield you must have at least two creates (simple), plenty of time (luck), and the terrain must help you. Quite simply on maps like Kashan where land is plenty, a 30 (or even 60) mine minefield won't inhibit your movements much (and besides good luck placing them all). By making an army field a maximum of 120 mines (with a logistics of about six crates) you have doubled the area in which a minefield is effective and only that.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:30 PM   #4
Tartantyco

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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

1. A mine of the type found in PR weighs about 10-15 kg, it's not something you carry around a few of on your person.

2. Let me refer you to these two threads: The Engineer and Modern Use of Minefields.

EDIT: Could somebody tell me what the current limit is on simultaneous mines and such is in PR at the moment.

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Old 06-17-2010, 09:18 PM   #5
badmojo420
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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

Who cares if the way they're deployed is unrealistic? Who cares if the way they're used in PR isn't 100% true to real life. Neither of those things are relevant to this suggestion. Denying this suggestion and keeping things as they are, still leaves us with an unrealistic mine.

I like the suggestion. But, only in AAS mode. We don't need those kits falling into insurgent hands.

It's true, landmines are heavy little suckers. But, it's also true that when you have a full crate of landmines in front of you, it wouldn't take you 30+ seconds to pick one up.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:25 PM   #6
ytman
Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

I understand its not realistic to carry two mines at a time. But its just not realistic to be carrying only one mine (as you would have a supply of them and multiple people to place them all). Unless we get a deployable minefield function (sounds like a good idea to me) the only way PR will have mines is in this fashion. So suspend disbelief for function.

The reason I say an increase in mines is due to the fact that it will decrease re-armament phase and allow a faster built MineField. However, if only the individual mine field was capped at 60 then still I think it'd allow for more realistic mindfields.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:10 PM   #7
Imchicken1

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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

gameplay>reality

I like this suggestion. You don't really see mines often on AAS either, as its such a big hassel to actually block off an area with mines or make a mine field



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Old 06-17-2010, 10:18 PM   #8
MasterGypsy

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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

We do use a lot of mines on Muttrah City. You can block off the supply lines or BTRs very easy. It doesn't take to long either.
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Last edited by MasterGypsy; 06-17-2010 at 10:19 PM.. Reason: Forgot somethig
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:41 PM   #9
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

Eventually I'd like to see the land mines removed from player kits completely, and replace the item with better "engineer" tools and equipment. That kit needs a serious overhaul.


I would then like to see mines deployed via more realistic methods. What I suggested in the past are FASCAM munitions capable of deploying better minefields, which are one of the most common types of employment used today.

A FASCAM field would be of pre-set dimension and mine count, with mine placement slightly random within the overall area. The minefield could then be marked on the map for the owning team, and maybe even deploy some sort of game-world markers or warning message (similar to when you enter dome of death) to prevent friendly players from killing themselves.

The mines used would also have a pre-set delayed self-destruct, just like real mines. This would allow fields to be replaced when the previous one expires, or if it's removed. By limiting the number of minefields active at any given time, you prevent exploitation and also allow movement of fields depending on the enemy's course of action.

Once such a feature is added, we might even see some type of future mine clearing devices such as MICLIC. The conventional forces engineer kit might also have the option of some sort of mine detector, the options are many.


For now, I'm told people are working on coming up with a solution/method, if it's even possible. But because it is low priority, I'm not sure if anyone is currently active in that process.

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Old 06-17-2010, 11:53 PM   #10
Wilkinson

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Default Re: Conventional Army Mine Increase

Too many people Run over their own Team-mates mines. as much as I agree, for game play purposes, I'd have to say we need to keep our limit the same.


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