Reregulation of the shooting delay after jumping [suggestion & discussion]

[Wolfguard]

Here the other day I came up to a corner of a building and was about to turn the corner, when suddenly an opponent stepped forward from the corner, which gave me a huge unfortunate shock. I don't know how it happened, but I accidently touched the spacebar that send my character jumping.

The problem was that I stood face-to-face with an adversary with a weapon in my face and I couldn't do a shit about it. I couldn't shoot when I was in the air and I couldn't shoot when I landed again. So instead of standing still right in front of him awaiting the 3 seconds before I could shoot again, the natural reaction send me jumping again trying to get away from him. That of course only led to my death. Had I stood still I would have been dead either way.

So because of a delay that was genuinely implemented in order to prevent people from abusing jump shooting aka. bunnyjump spraying: I died.

Had it been in real life, with the finger on the trigger, I would be perfectly capable of firing my weapon and at least give my self the slightest chance of survival. Better give it a shot and squeeze that damn trigger than not!

This is not my first unfortunate experience with this shooting delay regulation.
I once had to climb a short wall by jumping over it, and of course a bad guy was lying right on the other side of that wall. He had his back towards me, so in reality I would have had the advantage. However, because he heard me jumping over, and because I couldn't shoot him, he had time enough to turn around and shoot me. Sad day for me you might say.

I admit that this has only happened to me very rarely, but it still sucks. I understand the reason for the delay and all that, but I honestly believe it could be regulated a bit better, though.

This is my suggestion:

Why not let people be able to shoot while jumping, both with their weapon hipped and aimed, but make it so imprecise that trying it on longer distances, like more than say 7-10 meters and above is rather futile (and the more you jump the less aim precision). Just make it realistic but balanced enough, so we don't start seeing swarms of jumping newbies spraying all over the place. At a bare minimum, please make people able to defend them selves after at least one jump.

Heck, I would argue that running and shooting should be possible as well, aimed and/or hipped, just like real trained soldiers do when they advance in certain tactical situations. Aim precision should be adjusted realistically and balanced accordingly again. This is just a side suggestion though, that can be dealt with later if wished.

What is your thought on this? Debate, discuss, suggest!

Note: don't start trolling me with stupid comments like: "If you want bunnyjump spraying, go play some BF2" or moronic comments likewise ... I sincerely hate that game!!!

[ADDITION]
[Tweaked suggestion]:

Allow people to jump once and have them able to shoot immediately again when they land. It could just as well have a consequence being a slightly, moderate or severely lowered shooting precision for a second or two. If people should try to jump again consecutively, in trying to bunnyhop, they will then no longer be able to shoot again until after the delay.

+: able to overcome tiny and larger obstacles, such as curbs and short fences, without making you illogical and unrealistically vulnerable.
+: bunnyhop spraying is still impossible

P.S. I don NOT have a problem with accidently hitting the spacebar in any given situation. It happened to me once, so stop insinuating it!

[gazzthompson]

isnt the delay a vbf2 thing? if so, might it be hardcoded anyways?

eitherway, id say it would be more annoying to have people attempt to bunnyhop in CQB than the off chance of this situation happening to me (which i dont think it ever has).

also you can run and shoot, as you cant walk in game, all moment is running. Just you cant sprint and shoot.

[Rudd]

You want to remove our defence against bunnyhopping because you can't leave your spacebar alone?

here's an idea...choose a different button for jumping that isn't close to your overactive thumb :P

Jumping over walls with no idea of what is on the otherside is surely a bad idea IRL as ingame as well

Heck, I would argue that running and shooting should be possible as well, aimed and/or hipped, just like real trained soldiers do when they advance in certain tactical situations. Aim precision should be adjusted realistically and balanced accordingly again. This is just a side suggestion though, that can be dealt with later if wished.

they don't run, they have a particular position for fighting on the move, I think its called the combat glide, which is the position players adopt ingame when crouched and aimed in.

YouTube Video

[Arnoldio]

Just dont jump...

and when jumping over a wall, that is high enough not to see an anemy behind, means "vaulting" so you would have to re-grip your rifle after you go over it, but there isnt a proper simulation for that...

[Wolfguard]

"Gassthompson",
My intention was that people should still be able to fire their weapon if they say accidently jumped once or had to climb a fence/short wall by jumping over it once. The aim precision should of course be affected by this more or less. If people kept trying to jump around the place, it would become totally futile and or not possible to hit/shoot anything. This is all details that the developer would test out thoughroughly to balance it and make sure CQB didn't turn out to be a bunnyhopping contest.

"Rudd",
I have said nothing about removing anyone's defence against bunnyhopping! All I wanted was that the developers to regulate it such a way that it can't be abused to the degree that we start seeing people bunnyhopping all over the place.

Besides, if a newbie intentionally starts to come towards you with a bunnyhop and spray attempt; your defence against him would just be shooting him easily anyway, as his chance of surviving the attempt would be very slim because of the balancing I talked about. So nobody in their right mind would try a bunnyhopping spray assault on purpose.

But if you accidently jumped once or what ever, you should still be able to at least defend your self and not be forced to run away afterwards.

And, how was I supposed to know that there was an opponent lying on the other side of the short stone fence? It wasn't like I could pop my head over and have a look - it just isn't possible. We had to climb that short wall to proceed and the area was otherwise clear and safe - just a lone wolf waiting for its prey. In real life normal soldiers climb those kinds of obstacles with ease and with their finger on the trigger - ready for battle. Why completely take away something realistically, just because some newbies once abused it? I believe it can be regulated to the extend that it remains unabusable but somewhat realistic.

Soldiers are trained to advance in certain situations much faster than on that video. It's not sprinting, but it's advancing faster than walking - just similarly to the running speed in PR. And they are normally trained to do so with their weapon ready to shoot.

"ChisNizzle",

Why not? If it is the only way of overcoming an obstacle and the circumstances seems clear, why not jump/climb over it if it's pretty easy? Soldiers do it all the time in real life. Why go half a mile in the other direction just to get around?

Well, the height of the wall was about a little higher than my hip and I have multiple times overcome such obstacles with one hand on the obstacle and the other on the trigger of the rifle in real life situations. However, it was still tall enough that I couldn't see the other guy lying right behind it. In real life I would have popped my head over just to be safe, but we can't do that in PR.

[Boris.T.Spider]

...and if I'm using a bolt action rifle, all it takes is my target to bunny hop once and I'm screwed. Despite their low chance of killing you, the extra time it takes to kill a bunny can be a deadly distraction, which is why bunnyhoppers should be kicked from servers and no new code should be implimented to make it easier.

[[R-DEV]Deadfast]

I'm sorry, but if you are having problems with accidentally jumping reassign your jump key button as has been said above. Suggesting to change something just because you can't prevent yourself from jumping every time an enemy comes around a corner is a bit silly.

Climbing over a meter tall fence with your gun at the ready, let alone a trigger on the finger would probably get your head kicked in by whoever would happen to have climbed over before you BTW

[gazzthompson]

Originally Posted by Wolfguard

"Gassthompson",
My intention was that people should still be able to fire their weapon if they say accidently jumped once or had to climb a fence/short wall by jumping over it once. The aim precision should of course be affected by this more or less. If people kept trying to jump around the place, it would become totally futile and or not possible to hit/shoot anything. This is all details that the developer would test out thoughroughly to balance it and make sure CQB didn't turn out to be a bunnyhopping contest.

If you change it so you can defend your self in any meaningful way as you are suggestion, then people WILL abuse it and turn into an offensive weapon (bunnyhopping) if you are suggesting being able to fire still but not hit anything, then whats the point?

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by Wolfguard

Here the other day I came up to a corner of a building and was about to turn the corner, when suddenly an opponent stepped forward from the corner, which gave me a huge unfortunate shock. I don't know how it happened, but I accidently touched the spacebar that send my character jumping.

The problem was that I stood face-to-face with an adversary with a weapon in my face and I couldn't do a shit about it. I couldn't shoot when I was in the air and I couldn't shoot when I landed again. So instead of standing still right in front of him awaiting the 3 seconds before I could shoot again, the natural reaction send me jumping again trying to get away from him. That of course only led to my death. Had I stood still I would have been dead either way.

So because of a delay that was genuinely implemented in order to prevent people from abusing jump shooting aka. bunnyjump spraying: I died.

Had it been in real life, with the finger on the trigger, I would be perfectly capable of firing my weapon and at least give my self the slightest chance of survival. Better give it a shot and squeeze that damn trigger than not!

Not shooting when jumping is like having absolutely zero control of your weapon for a second or two in real life when jumping over something. Although your first reaction was 'surprise' you say you jumped a second time to avoid the fire. That is why there is a delay, people who want to use Unreal Tournament bunnyhopping in Project Reality.

The jump key is only there to get over obstacles, not to avoid fire. Bind it to a different key instead of saying that jumping a couple feet in the air is the 'natural reaction' when it is a completely unnatural reaction for soldiers in combat. If the engine could handle it I would rather have a climb over walls feature which would take even longer than jumping in PR.

[[R-MOD]Spec]

I understand your problem, Wolfguard, but these guys are right. If the Devs added any chance of self defence while jumping, people would bunny hop. It is realistic - and even added by DICE - not to be able to shoot while jumping or climbing. And really, having to shoot while jumping is so very rare... While bunny hoppers in games are so common... It just wouldn't help.

I'll agree and say move the jump button to somewhere else as you'll not too often have to quickly jump in PR anyway, there really isn't much of a point for jump to be at the space bar in such a game, tbh. I mean, that fits with Tomb Raider or Jedi Knight, and maybe even vBF2, but not PR.
Actually, I'm now thinking about moving it myself, I could use space for much more important things, such as VoIP, switching fire modes or sth.