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Old 09-10-2009, 08:24 PM   #41
Hitman.2.5
Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post

Oh, and if it was realistic, the Apache would have fire and forget capability. The radar on the Apache should be more then just eye candy .
The AH-64D on PR for some reason has a longbow on with with a full weapons load which IMO should be removed off the model, Which is not very frequent as the US Apache does not have the power to operate for a length of time and have both a full weapon load and the longbow where as the British Apache's power pack can handle both.

And fire and forget capability is where teamwork comes in and you have a spotter/Sl lase for you. You lock and fire one or a few and buzz off knowing 90% of the time you have killed/Destroyed the target.

Derpist
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:05 PM   #42
Eddie Baker
Banned
Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by Hitman.2.5 View Post
The AH-64D on PR for some reason has a longbow on with with a full weapons load which IMO should be removed off the model, Which is not very frequent as the US Apache does not have the power to operate for a length of time and have both a full weapon load and the longbow where as the British Apache's power pack can handle both.
T701D engines are being "plugged-into" the fleet of Apaches as well as Blackhawks to remedy that problem. Fully fueled, fully armed AND FCR equipped, even the WAH-64D is going to be straining, especially at high altitudes in Afghanistan.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:17 PM   #43
[R-DEV]Rudd
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

I say allow the choppers to lock on to ground vehicles, but they don't get the green box until they are locked on.

This is the good compromise. They are powerful...but they gotta find the target first.


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Old 09-10-2009, 11:17 PM   #44
Hunt3r
Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by Dr2B Rudd View Post
I say allow the choppers to lock on to ground vehicles, but they don't get the green box until they are locked on.

This is the good compromise. They are powerful...but they gotta find the target first.
Well yeah, but real choppers get FLIR to help you see.

Oh, and the current system is terrible. You HAVE to spam your missiles or you're a dead man. With the current laser guided system it's just ridiculous.

Speaking of which, we should have more differentiation between the helicopters. Cobras should have 8 Hellfires and 38 hydras. Same with the Apache. Cobras should have the 20mm Gatling, with 750 rounds of ammo, the Apache should have a 30mm auto-cannon with 1200 rounds of 30mm.

Mi-28 should get 300 rounds in the 30 mm auto cannon, 38 unguided rockets, and 16 ATGMs, and 2 AA missiles.

The Cobra should respawn faster in the game, but they do have to find the target themselves. No radar, so no dice when it comes to having targets pointed out to you. Say, the Cobra should respawn in 10 minutes.

The Apache should have targets pointed out within visual range. You get the radar, so obviously you should be able to see what's there. But the Apache should respawn in 15 minutes. Since the Mi-28 should be as armored as an Apache and it has twice as many ATGMs, it gets a 15 minute respawn time too.

All helos should be able to take direct hits and not go down from fire by anything less then 23mm. Unless it's a hit to the canopy, and it should only take up to 14.5mm without the pilots getting hurt or the aircraft getting hit. The Cobra shouldn't

Personally I think that concentrated fire should always take out Attack Helos. The Cobra should be just as powerful as the Apache, but without the radar and much less armor.

The Mi-28 should be as armored as the Apache. With more ATGMs but no radar.

The Apache should be extremely able to survive in a group of two. That's the max for any map in the game. The Mi-28 and Cobra should have 3 working together if it's an armor heavy map.

If the laser in PR actually went as fast as a real laser does, this would be less of a problem. The laser doesn't. Attack helicopters should be vulnerable to AA. Therefore, attack helicopters need to stick with armor or infantry. If an Apache sticks around giving firesupport to the armor and the armor saves the helicopter from getting destroyed, wasting huge amounts of tickets, then you've managed to keep an extremely valuable asset. If you have a single Linebacker or Tunguska around, supporting armor, you've basically eliminated the threat of attack helicopters. Then a formation of 2 Apaches or 3 Cobras/Mi-28s flanking the AA tank, destroying it, and then destroying the armor would be the only way. If you get spotted while trying to flank it's over. Flying up high would be suicide. You wouldn't be able to lock on to anything, since the fog means you're out of visual range for everything, and shooting your auto cannon would just be a big "SHOOT HERE!" sign for enemy AAVs.

CAS would still be extremely effective with Apaches and Cobras too. Assuming no AAVs show up and there aren't more then one or two tanks that wander in range, you'd be able to mow down just about everything for the moving squad. A formation of attack helicopters would make them unstoppable, assuming no one has AA.

Basically, attack helicopters should destroy anything that isn't meant to kill any flying aircraft. Jets would very handily shoot down helicopters if they have BVR missiles, with no chance of getting hit by the helicopter at all, tanks could get a lucky shot, a Tunguska, Linebacker, or any AAV is certain death if you don't get in cover and drop flares in time, concentrated .50 cal fire will take you down too, as will concentrated APC fire. Which basically means two APCs shooting at the helicopter, which would down it pretty fast.

If you have maybe 4 50 cals shooting at a helicopter, it should go down as fast as a helicopter does now with 1 50 cal. 1 HAT should be instant death. 1 LAT should instantly kill a cobra, but critical an Apache or Mi-28, to the point where rudder is gone and the cockpit vibrates violently and alarm bells are going off like no other.

So the attack helicopters are still vulnerable, but slightly toughened. Bullets should be less effective against attack helos, but rockets and the sort are still very deadly. Tank shells and APCs are also very deadly. Twenty APC rounds should make the Apache and Mi-28 go down, 10 should make the Cobra go down. Attack helicopters are essentially the only close air support that can advance with a squad every step of the way.

Attack helicopters should be a more important asset. An infantry squad should certainly be able to push through infantry, but attack helicopters would reduce casualties. I'm sick and tired of having to play an attack helicopter akin to only being effective against infantry. As soon as a fifty cal shows up attack helicopters are going down.
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Last edited by Hunt3r; 09-11-2009 at 02:01 AM..
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:06 AM   #45
Qaiex

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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

Well it's obvious that the system right now isn't working, I'd be all for trying unguided missiles for a while, I think it would actually be a lot easier than guiding them.

It would also be nice with some sort of system to keep the attack helicopters down-close and personal, and not moving slowly forward a kilometer in the air to avoid getting hit by the ERYX.

Look at it, that is 75 meters, tops.


Here are some other pictures of some CAS.
Cobras providing CAS
Kiowa air support
Cobra dropping flares
Big picture of an apache doing a sweep
Apache providing CAS for a RHIB


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Old 09-11-2009, 05:16 AM   #46
@bsurd

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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

hope some dev says something to this tread. But what i want be in as fast as possible:

More flares for the choppers. Actutally its not possible to bring them out b4 you get a look tone. Because they are so fast empty, that after 2 drops you have to get back if you want some for the way to mainbase.

Thats stupid imo. Double the flares to 60 would be very helpfull. Then you can get out some flares b4 you enter a hot zone.


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Old 09-11-2009, 05:18 AM   #47
Alex6714

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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post

Mi-28 should get 300 rounds in the 30 mm auto cannon, 38 unguided rockets, and 16 ATGMs, and 2 AA missiles.
Negative, it should have 40 unguided rockets of 80mm.

Cobra should have 14 hydras according to the model in game, but the model in game sucks and is the proper model for the right variant which can carry 38.

"Today's forecast calls for 30mm HE rain with a slight chance of hellfires"

"oh, they're fire and forget all right...they're fired then they forget where the target is"
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:17 AM   #48
Qaiex

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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by @bsurd View Post
hope some dev says something to this tread. But what i want be in as fast as possible:

More flares for the choppers. Actutally its not possible to bring them out b4 you get a look tone. Because they are so fast empty, that after 2 drops you have to get back if you want some for the way to mainbase.

Thats stupid imo. Double the flares to 60 would be very helpfull. Then you can get out some flares b4 you enter a hot zone.

Can be fixed by allowing helicopters to drop 1 / 2 flares at a time like in reality / combined arms respectively.


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Old 09-11-2009, 06:34 AM   #49
Alex6714

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Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by qaiex View Post
Can be fixed by allowing helicopters to drop 1 / 2 flares at a time like in reality / combined arms respectively.
Yeah in CA Heavy Attack helicopters have 120 flares, that deploy one out each side on auto so you can fire bursts of as much as you want. Though the flares work differently so you really do need them.

"Today's forecast calls for 30mm HE rain with a slight chance of hellfires"

"oh, they're fire and forget all right...they're fired then they forget where the target is"
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:43 PM   #50
Eddie Baker
Banned
Default Re: Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

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Originally Posted by Alex6714 View Post
Cobra should have 14 hydras according to the model in game, but the model in game sucks and is the proper model for the right variant which can carry 38.
No, it isn't the proper model for the AH-1Z (which can carry 38 Hydra and 8 Hellfire). It's a hybrid of the AH-1W and AH-1Z. The tail rotor is on the wrong side for an AH-1Z (but the correct side for an AH-1W), the engines do not have the HIRSS and the stub wings are from the AH-1W.
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