A possible new game/deployment mode.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by HellDuke

I mean at first you have to wait for a long time. Of course that would make people more carefull, but the awareness in-game cannot be compared to real awareness and therefore you can't always avoid dying.

That takes me to the second point. If you are a casualty and are medivaced that's all great. But if you get killed and are removed... Well I'd give it 85% that the player will leave the game. And how about those who join in later? The game-play would become extremly slow since combat would become scarce due to the time it takes for everyone to get back into the fight.

I kinda like the idea, but too much is too much. It seems realistic, but let's not make the game into reality... If you go this far I think it would be easyer to just join the army...

In regards to how much time a player would spend in limbo before spawning in and joining a squad, that could always be adjusted so that there is a decent level of enjoyment while discouraging smacktardery and slowing down the game just a bit.

It's all about balance in that case, really.

I think that if this kind of system were implemented, then it would encourage fighting more intelligently to ensure that your team keeps the upperhand, and could also cause more long-range firefights and also make those fights last longer; the impact of death would be a bit greater than it is now, meaning that players would be more likely to keep heads down rather than jumping out and taking a few shots 'just because'. The game wouldn't necessarily be slower in this case, it would just extend the action since a firefight could really last for a decent amount of time.

As far as joining the army, the army doesn't accept underage persons, psychopaths that just really enjoy killing people, and worst of all they don't give respawns.

Originally Posted by Ccharge

Theres a balance between realism and gameplay. This would defently tip the balance. This would result in the game dragging on and alot of people leaving from peer boardem and the fact that they loose out on a great squad if they die.

They could always be 'reassigned' to that squad, if the system implemented a request-accept/deny system. A squad would 'request' new members, and the player could choose to join a squad, or can wait if he knows his squad will be returning. More squads would be able to change up players and keep a freshness to the fight, since there will now be a chances that a newbie comes in, or an experienced player, and will dictate how the squad acts. This means that newbies also have a greater chance to be taught lessons in the game since they aren't restricted to a single squad, and will have the opportunity to learn from many different squad leaders.

Originally Posted by Jordanb716

That's not exactly what I was thinking but that is a good idea.

yes I know it would slow down gameplay a lot but some people prefer it that way and thats why it would need to be separate from the main game modes. Another thing I thought of that I forgot to mention is my hope that a reinforcement system like this would make pushes and potentially costly tactics more important. If you make a large push and get wiped out you might have to wait a while to get reinforcements back on the field and when you do get them you might have a lot less people then when you started unlike the current system where everyone would be back in under a minute no cost for what should be costly tactics. It could also create some interesting map mechanics. For instance one side could have faster reinforcements or slower but larger reinforcements depending on the faction and battle. Perhaps reinforcements could be delay either temporarily or slowed for the rest of the game by capturing side objectives or destroying equipment. Please remember that these are all just ideas. I'm rather hoping to get more responses like Celestials. Any other ideas?

Glad to know you enjoyed my post.

Reinforcements have always been a bit of a mish-mash with me; I think that instead of enforcing a reinforcement mechanic where players must stay dead for a long time, instead players could only join a squad and therefore have 'permission' to leave base, making a more flexible system of reinforcements (a squad that stays in the field for a long time will often have to worry about running their numbers thin, as one member that dies could add up to cause the squad to be more and more under-manned to take on objectives), as well as adding a new aspect to squad-command; a squad that has been on the brunt of a push for an objective could have taken heavy losses and must now return to base, even though they would be the optimal choice for the next objective; a defending squad would have to move up to secure and hold the current objective so that the 'reinforcements' (the squad's new members) are brought up, and then the attack can continue. Vice versa goes for defense; if a squad loses 3 members in a heavy assault, but still holds their ground at the end of the battle, they will need to arrange a swap with a new defending squad, so that they can be assigned new members to take with them to the fight.

Making this respawn on this system quick (as in, instead of waiting 10 minutes before being brought back in to the battle, they would spend a short amount of time where they can be revived/incapacitated waiting for revival), but having newly spawned players spawn into the base and do some minor base duty to keep them occupied and perhaps even entertained until a squad comes back, would make the system just as effective but also allowing players who die to enjoy a bit of time leisurely doing things around base to 'benefit the team', like manning base defense MGs, or base defense AA, or even transporting ammunition to vehicles in base, anything to keep them occupied and entertained while they wait.




Please, do take the time to explain your post, I would love to know what your idea was.

[goguapsy]

therefore here I say again: PR is well balanced: A good SL can make a strategy in less than 2 minutes, and the simple BF2 engine can provide some much fun while this. Teamwork is great how it is. And CO's aren't that frequent in public servers, even though the game gets MUCH better when there is one.
Hopefully more ppl will play commander with the UAV...

But I don't know. Dev's might wanna shed some light here? I just want to make my opinion clear: Do not make gameplay much slower. That is one of the worst turn offs about PR. I like the gameplay, but don't make it much slower.

Thanks.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by goguapsy

therefore here I say again: PR is well balanced: A good SL can make a strategy in less than 2 minutes, and the simple BF2 engine can provide some much fun while this. Teamwork is great how it is. And CO's aren't that frequent in public servers, even though the game gets MUCH better when there is one.
Hopefully more ppl will play commander with the UAV...

But I don't know. Dev's might wanna shed some light here? I just want to make my opinion clear: Do not make gameplay much slower. That is one of the worst turn offs about PR. I like the gameplay, but don't make it much slower.

Thanks.

Do realize that most of the suggestions mentioned aren't even possible to be put into PR as of now. For PR2, which will be developed on an entirely new engine that the PR team owns licensing to use and modify as they like, these things can be implemented and adjusted and tested or even removed if it is deemed unfit for what they want.

In my opinion, if the critical wound time (5 minutes max) and kill time (30 seconds) remained the same, but players that spawn in spawn at main out of their squad, they could still be doing things and enjoy themselves while at main (perhaps missions could be made for players that don't have a squad, like driving the logistic trucks to spots deemed by the commander, etc) so that they can still play, but they won't be able to get directly back into the action until they can get hooked up with another squad. They might even get into the action faster if another squad is returning to base and picks them up.

It could be made that a squadmember could also join a squad that is still out in the field; for example, let's say a squad is defending a flag, and takes a casualty or two. The players spawn at main, but they can rejoin that squad or a different squad as a 'new soldier', and then be flown in by helicopter or transported out by APC, or can be picked up directly from base by the squad.

IMO, I think that the player should be able to put up a request to join a squad when they spawn in base, or can choose to run missions for the commander (like driving a logistics truck out to the front). If they put up a request to join a squad, they could be accepted by squads in main, or can be assigned by command to a particular squad. With large squad sizes, this kind of thing will have less of an impact than we all might think, as you may just as likely return to your old squad, but being picked up by a new squad shouldn't be frowned upon-you should do your best no matter what squad.

[goguapsy]

Originally Posted by Celestial1

Do realize that most of the suggestions mentioned aren't even possible to be put into PR as of now. For PR2, which will be developed on an entirely new engine that the PR team owns licensing to use and modify as they like, these things can be implemented and adjusted and tested or even removed if it is deemed unfit for what they want.

In my opinion, if the critical wound time (5 minutes max) and kill time (30 seconds) remained the same, but players that spawn in spawn at main out of their squad, they could still be doing things and enjoy themselves while at main (perhaps missions could be made for players that don't have a squad, like driving the logistic trucks to spots deemed by the commander, etc) so that they can still play, but they won't be able to get directly back into the action until they can get hooked up with another squad. They might even get into the action faster if another squad is returning to base and picks them up.

It could be made that a squadmember could also join a squad that is still out in the field; for example, let's say a squad is defending a flag, and takes a casualty or two. The players spawn at main, but they can rejoin that squad or a different squad as a 'new soldier', and then be flown in by helicopter or transported out by APC, or can be picked up directly from base by the squad.

IMO, I think that the player should be able to put up a request to join a squad when they spawn in base, or can choose to run missions for the commander (like driving a logistics truck out to the front). If they put up a request to join a squad, they could be accepted by squads in main, or can be assigned by command to a particular squad. With large squad sizes, this kind of thing will have less of an impact than we all might think, as you may just as likely return to your old squad, but being picked up by a new squad shouldn't be frowned upon-you should do your best no matter what squad.

If we consider this as being PR2 I agree. But ATM (PR) have you been on a base in a round with a lack of transports? That is... dance parties and smoke fests. I believe this idea can't be implemented in this engine.

NOW, have you played ARMA 2? They do exactly like this: You are in a fireteam, which belongs to a squad, which forms a platoon. ARMA 2's problem is the fact that it doesn't focus on teamwork AT ALL (which is something PR shines on). Now, if PR DEVs have an idea about making large scale battles (for this ideas to be implemented), they should make some kind of way that encourages teamwork. I believe that ARMA 2's main problem is the spawn distance. BUT I CAN BE WRONG! I haven't played multiplayer that much in ARMA 2, I'm just giving a quick observation!



In my point of view, DEVs should make PR2 just like ARMA 2 (effects, deviation, animations, vehicles, huge maps, lots and lots of players, all that stuff!) but STILL focusing on teamwork, which is what makes PR such a great game over ARMA 2. And I would love if they kept the simple interface and high-performance at good resolutions (100%) for low and mid-end machines. The C4 engine (which is the one I think they are gonna use) doesn't look that demanding, which is a great thing actually. I don't mind about the graphics in BF2. I actually like them (maybe some post-process effects would be nice, such as motion blur or tiredness (unfocus)), i think it gives a "light" feeling for the game, which is also something I like to play over ARMA 2... The cheesy Bf2 graphics make me happy it makes me un-stressed (not really, u know what I mean right?)... but some improvements wouldn't hurt.

THEREFORE I believe they should make a new forum section only about PR2. This is where this idea actually belongs.

Cheers mate.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by goguapsy

If we consider this as being PR2 I agree. But ATM (PR) have you been on a base in a round with a lack of transports? That is... dance parties and smoke fests. I believe this idea can't be implemented in this engine.

I don't believe so either. That's why I said that it's left to PR2.

NOW, have you played ARMA 2? They do exactly like this: You are in a fireteam, which belongs to a squad, which forms a platoon. ARMA 2's problem is the fact that it doesn't focus on teamwork AT ALL (which is something PR shines on). Now, if PR DEVs have an idea about making large scale battles (for this ideas to be implemented), they should make some kind of way that encourages teamwork. I believe that ARMA 2's main problem is the spawn distance. BUT I CAN BE WRONG! I haven't played multiplayer that much in ARMA 2, I'm just giving a quick observation!

No, unfortunately I have not played Arma2, however, I know that TacticalGamer plays it frequently on CoOp, and they also have a Team vs. Team server. Looking at some of their games, it seems that Arma2 does have quite a bit of teamwork 'available'. Like you said, though, I definitely think that it does need a touch of the PR team to make it really teamwork oriented.

Also, from what I have heard, the VON (voip services) in Arma2 are currently broken, and I believe that is the biggest issue, and why there is a lack of teamwork involved on most public servers. TG enforces a teamspeak-required environment, IIRC.

If there were fireteam, squad, platoon-level coordination, I think that things could be far superior teamwork wise if done right than the small squads that PR is currently stuck with.

(Using the US army's numbers for example)
Imagine your fireteam of 4-5 players, in a squad of 8-10 players, in a platoon of 30-50.

Your Fireteam has VOIP just like squads do now. The Fireteam Leader has a 'commander' VOIP to his Squad Leader, who has 'commander' VOIP to his Platoon Leader. And for good measure, a positional audio system like mumble so that everyone can speak amongst themselves even if from different fireteams.

There would be one Platoon (let's say 50 players) per team, the Leader of which would act as a commander. In those platoons could be 5-6 (each with 8 players) squads. In those squads would be 2 fireteams. This means that as a team, you would have 10-12 full fireteams (4 players each), with 2 players leftover (the two of which could then become logistics/sniper/whatever)

This would enable a very tight knit of players per fireteam (4 people with comms between eachother, instead of 6 people), while having a very intricate command system that will allow a Squad Leader to communicate not only with his fireteam but with the second fireteam, making 8 player squads that would work together (8 players overall in a squad, instead of 6, which enables more players to be utilized in a very coherent and flowing manner, just like squads of 6 can now, but with the larger numbers).

THEREFORE I believe they should make a new forum section only about PR2. This is where this idea actually belongs.

Since it's far too early to speculate, I think that leaving it as it is might be the best solution; you give some of these people a way to suggest things for PR2, where we don't have any idea what is yet impossible to do or what is not wanted in the game, and you'll have hundreds of suggestions that will go down the drain because there will really be no reason to read them since no real development is yet being done on the new engine.