Knives. Do we really need them?

[sakils2]

I'd rather see incendiary grenade disappear from all kits except rifleman specialist, officer, combat engineer. Thus we could have backup sights for scoped weapons (just remove one smoke grenade from the officer kit) and... do all soldiers carry incendiary grenades?

P.S. Maybe increase the incendiary grenades for those three classes.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by sakils2

I'd rather see incendiary grenade disappear from all kits except rifleman specialist, officer, combat engineer. Thus we could have backup sights for scoped weapons (just remove one smoke grenade from the officer kit) and... do all soldiers carry incendiary grenades?

P.S. Maybe increase the incendiary grenades for those three classes.

In that same token, you could remove knives and incendiaries from certain kits.

This would mean that you can get backup sights on scoped rifles, as WELL as a deployed mode for certain weapons (like an M16 with a gripod, or something). (Not that I support these, as I am unsure of how they would affect gameplay and such, just saying that it is possible to have those all fully usable)



I agree with both being removed, though.

Knife is unnecessary in game for any and everything excluding hand-to-hand combat. However, hand-to-hand combat isn't exactly a normal occurance, and you should always have someone from your squad with you to assist in killing them even if you are out of ammo. If you can't kill an enemy without a knife, either you need to reload and aim better, or you need to start getting your buddies to shoot at them with you.

Incendiary work should be done by people who are experienced and have had the training to properly use an incendiary grenade. If that's everyone in the army, I'd still personally rather have it restricted to certain classes for reasons other than reality.

[Herbiie]

I don't see why people are complaining about incendiaries - what do you replace them with? They are hardly used as it is, usually only for taking out an empty enemy truck or an enemy firebase. The knife/bayonet is there for realism - every single soldier has a knife or bayonet, and it's a good way of sneakily killing people as they rarely know what just happened. Get playing a jungle map such as Tad Sae then tell me you want knives removed - in Jungle maps it's used almost as much as your gun because you get so close it'd be a waste of ammo to shoot them. 1 hit kills are fine. It doesn't matter where in-game you hit them, in reality your character isn't going to run up to someone and stab them in the leg - they'll get them straight in the throat. From behind they'll slit it from the front just stab it. Enemy dead now quick get your gun out so his mates don't shoot you - or was he lone wolfing? If so then shame on him, and you have bragging rights.

The knife is brilliant, for e.g. earlier erm yesterday now, we were MEC and got into a firefight, cleverly 1 of them managed to flank us and take out all of our squad apart from me, and I was able to knife him in the back without his squad noticing and legging it while they were wondering wth just happened. if we didn't have knives - what would we replace them with? Pistol? What's the point when you have your gun... you want your noisey weapon and your stealthy weapon.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by Herbiie

I don't see why people are complaining about incendiaries[...]They are hardly used as it is

Answering your own question, you just didn't realize it.

If the incendiary is hardly used, why not reduce their spread a bit so that only an officer carries them, but perhaps carries multiples, so that they are still accessible... but now, you have a free slot in EVERY OTHER KIT in the game. If you get something useful to put in place of it, awesome.

If not, you can always keep it in until something is found. And that's one of the important parts of these arguments; having the ability to implement new elements for gameplay, even if it doesn't happen now.

The knife/bayonet is there for realism - every single soldier has a knife or bayonet, and it's a good way of sneakily killing people as they rarely know what just happened. Get playing a jungle map such as Tad Sae then tell me you want knives removed - in Jungle maps it's used almost as much as your gun because you get so close it'd be a waste of ammo to shoot them. 1 hit kills are fine. It doesn't matter where in-game you hit them, in reality your character isn't going to run up to someone and stab them in the leg - they'll get them straight in the throat. From behind they'll slit it from the front just stab it. Enemy dead now quick get your gun out so his mates don't shoot you - or was he lone wolfing? If so then shame on him, and you have bragging rights.

In an aspect of realism, a soldier probably wouldn't actually use a knife in hand-to-hand combat. Martial Arts would obviously be taught with use of the knife, but more often than not hand-to-hand combat would involve the soldier using body weight and skill to take down an opponent, rather than trying to immediately slit their necks. Many martial arts include techniques to get an opponent to the ground quickly and effectively, and I sure as all would be using one of those techniques and pointing my rifle barrel at the enemy on the ground before I bothered with pulling out my knife.

In another aspect of realism, a hand-to-hand fight is not likely to occur, due to the procedures of room clearing. A grenade is thrown in before they even get close to the enemy, which means that the enemy will be killed wounded or stun before they even enter the room. After that, they will breach and clear by filling in as many men into the room as they can, meaning that MULTIPLE rifles will be on the target at all times.

In an aspect of gameplay, a lone wolf can easily be disposed of in other manners. Namely, shooting him. If he's a lone wolf, that means he is ALONE. Which means that it isn't likely you are going to be stopped very quickly.

In another aspect of gameplay, most knife ambushes on maps such as OGT/Tad Sae/etc (Yes, I have done them, so I know myself) are done by hiding in long grass, waiting an opportunity and then going out to stab without any regard for safety. Often enough, a knife ambusher is met by multiple bullets after someone is killed, if the squad is working together. Instead, that same ambusher could have just waited for the same moment, but had his rifle out and quickly dispatched of 3 in the squad before there was much of a reaction.





Yes, knives are used in reality, (and so are incendiaries), but are generally there as a last line of defense rather than a proactive offense. And since you should always be with your squad, there is almost no need whatsoever to use a knife, since you should always have 5 other men in your squad pointing their rifles at the enemy.

[Qaiex]

Originally Posted by Alex6714

Well going thios route... Why not remove also grenades. They aren´t necesary too, seeing as the main objective isn´t to kill people and it just makes lonewolves better.

Rifles aswell, because you shouldn´t just be shooting poeple, you should be capping flags with teammates and flaking the enemy...




Anyway, is there actually a reason to remove it? I can´t see any?

Note: I almost never use the knife for a few reasons, but that doesn´t mean I think it should go, in a few situations its useful.

Useful enough to warrant using one of the finite number of weapon slots on it?

The knife is used for killing rallies and firebases, thats it. Personally I feel firebases should be more easily overrun and knifing a radio shouldn't be enough to take them out, thermite or nothing but thats another story.
Anyway, since I started playing in February this year, I have not managed to kill more than 4 people with it, and all of those were completely unnecessary and on at least one occasion resulted in me getting shot, leaving me bleeding out.


I agree that a knife is good to have, but it definately is not worth the weapon slot it uses.

[Airsoft Soldier]

How we gonna have zombie battles without knives?

[Herbiie]

Originally Posted by qaiex

Anyway, since I started playing in February this year, I have not managed to kill more than 4 people with it, and all of those were completely unnecessary and on at least one occasion resulted in me getting shot, leaving me bleeding out.

This Month I have mad around 8 or 9 kills with my trusty knife / bayonet. Play a jungle map, hide in the undergrowth, then knife one of the group before throwing a grenade and pulling back. Get your whole squad doing this and you have one dead enemy team.

Also, usually when a British soldier at least goes into combat he has his bayonet attached, or should. Ok, he doesn't kill with it but it should still be there.

What I meant by hardly ever used was only for taking out fire bases and abandoned vehicles, and tbh if I was a SL I wouldn't want to have to be the one running up to a fire base to destroy it properly, I'd rather have my squad on a ridge or building covering one guy who sprints forward to take it out.

[Celestial1]

Originally Posted by Herbiie

What I meant by hardly ever used was only for taking out fire bases and abandoned vehicles, and tbh if I was a SL I wouldn't want to have to be the one running up to a fire base to destroy it properly, I'd rather have my squad on a ridge or building covering one guy who sprints forward to take it out.

Or, if you're smart, you'll move your squad up.

Firebases disable spawning once you get people in a large radius. From there, take out any baddies, walk up to the firebase and secure it.


It used to be that the method you described was the best way to take out FBs, but since the disabled spawning when enemies are near was implemented it's actually less effective than just moving up and disabling it completely, and safely taking it out at your discretion.

[Qaiex]

My point was that unless you actually make an effort to use the knife, it doesn't happen, because 99.9% of the time it's disadvantageous to do so.
I feel the slot is better spent on something you actually benefit from using.

[Tirak]

Originally Posted by qaiex

My point was that unless you actually make an effort to use the knife, it doesn't happen, because 99.9% of the time it's disadvantageous to do so.
I feel the slot is better spent on something you actually benefit from using.

This of course will no doubt bring about the nigh hilarious situation where two people run out of ammo and are down to harsh language on mumble.

Knives simulate the close combat aspect of PR as we are not able to replicate Judo Throws, Karate Kicks and martial arts in general. You have your knife when you run out of ammo, so you can do stealth takedowns (or rather, as stealthy as you can in a game with VOIP still active while dead), and the practicle purpose of removing rallys and firebases without having to waste ammo or worse, having people take these things out at range by shooting them thus turning snipers into the ultimate anti structure.