Complete civilian ROE revamp

[MrScruff]

Civilians are, most of the time, useless.

On Al Basrah once, I was the gunner in a warrior and I was watching our six whilst we were heading back for repairs. Next thing I know we stopped and my driver is telling me, "WTF, theres a million civis infront of us." I turned around and there were nothing but civis covering the bridge. They started to surround us and throw rocks, so my driver pulled back and I mowed down 8 civis with no punishments.

Useless.

[[R-MOD]Spec]

If people don't care they are useless, yes...

[hx.bjoffe]

Interesting.. Reflected suggestion and presented well. Big thumb.
Crit is maybe too many rules. Still alot better then current collaborator, flawed mechanism in my mind.

[mat552]

Another thing I was pondering. You leave tons of loopholes that mean if a civvi does something (or hasn't done something) out of your line of sight, you're screwed. How well do you honestly think you'll remember these in the field?

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by MrScruff

Civilians are, most of the time, useless.

On Al Basrah once, I was the gunner in a warrior and I was watching our six whilst we were heading back for repairs. Next thing I know we stopped and my driver is telling me, "WTF, theres a million civis infront of us." I turned around and there were nothing but civis covering the bridge. They started to surround us and throw rocks, so my driver pulled back and I mowed down 8 civis with no punishments.

Useless.

you could have run them over....

you must have had an uberspawn time

[McBumLuv]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Eddie Baker

There's a reason that the so-called civilian is on the opposing side, because it is the enemy. The "civilian" misnomer should never have been applied to that class to begin with. He is no longer a civilian, he is a an unarmed combatant supporting the insurgents.

Well, whether or not he's an unarmed combatant, does that ever mean he should be "fair game" to be shot? He hasn't changed much from the 0.75 days in his kit. He can now request mortars strikes, yes, but he's actually less collaborative in the fact that he can no longer spot enemy troops. He needs a commander to request mortars, and then he needs to be the SL, and I've seen insurgent commanders rise up to the opportunity of dropping mortars about all of 4 games, tops.

I honestly thought that insurgency was way better back in 0.75 for the civilian. Yes, he's had a name change and can now request a mortar strike, but his underlying role hasn't really changed. Except now he's punished no matter what he does, and the Coalition have nothing to worry about. Though, I do think there should be differentiation between a complete collaborator that can help the insurgents more directly, and a simple civilian that has nly limited opportunities to do so.

In all honesty, I modelled this in my mind as well with snoggum's collaborator/civilian distinction in mind (http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...n+collaborator). I'd keep these ROEs for the civilian, and the collaborator's would be similar, except that they could be arrested at any time and shot even if they have had a molotov in hand within 3 minutes.

The main thing is, that while the collaborator is technically helping the enemy, there's nothing always apparent about that fact, and he still is unarmed. If we were to distinguish them, then at least there'd be improvement in both sections.

Anyways, why are people complaining about them being killed by your own grenades? Even if they are sticking around insurgents, they'll be punished for that occasion, but you will too. Make sure there aren't any civilians within the vicinity before you fire grenades, HEAT or HE rounds into a building.

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by MrScruff

Civilians are, most of the time, useless.

On Al Basrah once, I was the gunner in a warrior and I was watching our six whilst we were heading back for repairs. Next thing I know we stopped and my driver is telling me, "WTF, theres a million civis infront of us." I turned around and there were nothing but civis covering the bridge. They started to surround us and throw rocks, so my driver pulled back and I mowed down 8 civis with no punishments.

Useless.

The punishment is invisible, you lost some intel and your next respawn (if you have one) is longer. That's why people feel free to shoot them.

[wookimonsta]

Originally Posted by snooggums

The punishment is invisible, you lost some intel and your next respawn (if you have one) is longer. That's why people feel free to shoot them.

don't you still get that message telling you you've shot a civilian?

[wookimonsta]

Originally Posted by McLuv

Anyways, why are people complaining about them being killed by your own grenades? Even if they are sticking around insurgents, they'll be punished for that occasion, but you will too. Make sure there aren't any civilians within the vicinity before you fire grenades, HEAT or HE rounds into a building.

if you are sitting in an apc and see a building with 3 rpgs, you open up since letting them take aim is usually fatal. now if when i open up on that building hit a collaborator that is sitting around inside, then i shouldn't get punished should I?

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by wookimonsta

don't you still get that message telling you you've shot a civilian?

Don't know, but a message won't change behavior if there is no accompanying punishment.