Remove the kill counter?

[Ace42]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]OkitaMakoto

Remove til end of round if at all possible. Feels way too gamey when I find myself pulling up the score list to see how me and my squad are doing. And then theres the use of it to confirm kills[although delayed]

How else do you propose inexperienced players evaluate their / the weapon's accuracy? I know that if I couldn't verify that it was MY shots doing the killing via the KDR, I'd have no idea what sort of deviation the guns were using. Ditto for *accurately* establishing the efficacy of tactics.

People already assume that just because they've heard of a tactic being used IRL or seen it in the movies; because it SOUNDS right; that it's a shrewd and effective thing to do. ATM I can say "yeah, check the scoreboard, you're not achieving squat." Removing the scoreboard's a joy for the walter mitties, because no-one can them call them out on it.

It's irrational to think that the removal of the only means for judging efficacy will lead to *more* rational and sophisticated assessment of it. Instead you'll just have a load more clueless nub squads going rambo in the middle of nowhere and when the commander says "WTH are you doing?!?" they can just lie and say "man, we're the ones floating this whole team" with nothing to prove otherwise.

[[R-CON]Wicca]

Well i cant imagine real soldiers running around checking their scores:P

Anyway, lets say this took effect, noone can see their kill scores.

So, one squad is attacking an enemy position, the SL has suppressive fire and sends in an assault team, they clear it out. The only way they know they killed anyone is to see the dead bodies, get a kill count, then report back to Command, SL for that matter.

The whole, "duuuude i killed so many people", it doesnt become the same, the only way you know is if you see the dead body, and you see that your gun shot him sort of.

And its just more realistic.

And yes, if the commander ask you, "WTH are you doing!?" and you say, "We are the ones racking up kills" and you have no proof for it, then thats the way it goes.

If you want to play PR to rack up kills, (Even if you have no proof of showing it) and telling the commander to screw himself, then sure, be my guest. But if you want to play PR and play for teamwork, then playing without kdr doesnt matter, and it makes you more eligable to follow orders, ergo, taking away the kdr makes it better gameplay.

I hope you take away the kill count, i hate it when im the SL, and weve just been through a hardcore beating, and ive been trying hard to keep my squad alive, when i hear a squeeky little boys voice going, " i got 15 kills yaaay"... Then i feel that all i accomplished is nothing, its just sad.... sad...


As for tactics, if you keep your squad alive, then the tactic works, therefor falling back is a very good tactic:P

No but seriously, tactics simple, its the decision of when to fall, back and when to move and attack that is really hard, people aim to kill and supress and all that, but the SL decides wheter you should stay or go.

[nick20404]

Originally Posted by Ace42

How else do you propose inexperienced players evaluate their / the weapon's accuracy? I know that if I couldn't verify that it was MY shots doing the killing via the KDR, I'd have no idea what sort of deviation the guns were using. Ditto for *accurately* establishing the efficacy of tactics.

People already assume that just because they've heard of a tactic being used IRL or seen it in the movies; because it SOUNDS right; that it's a shrewd and effective thing to do. ATM I can say "yeah, check the scoreboard, you're not achieving squat." Removing the scoreboard's a joy for the walter mitties, because no-one can them call them out on it.

It's irrational to think that the removal of the only means for judging efficacy will lead to *more* rational and sophisticated assessment of it. Instead you'll just have a load more clueless nub squads going rambo in the middle of nowhere and when the commander says "WTH are you doing?!?" they can just lie and say "man, we're the ones floating this whole team" with nothing to prove otherwise.

I agree, new players are not always adept to just noticing they killed the guy 300+ away. Besides the whole "Take it away so you can't see if you killed someone" thing is wrong in a few ways, I understand it might be more realistic but the problem with the game is that you cannot see nearly as good as you would be able to in real life, on top of that kills don't even show up for 30 or up to 60 seconds some times, so its not like you can just shoot someone and quickly check your score to see if you got a kill. Most of these other reasons for removing it seem like small personal issues with, I think it would only hurt the game instead of help it, besides taking out the score because its realistic and a few people said "You can't check your score in real life" well they might as well take out all the UI and menus etc and just make it so you click on a desktop icon and your instantly in battle. No more choosing who you want to play with which server you wanna goto, just pure drop you in the battle with people regardless of if you want to be with them realism!

Besides all that any real problem the scores cause could be solved with small edits instead of completely ditching the system all together.

[Ace42]

Originally Posted by Wicca

Well i cant imagine real soldiers running around checking their scores:P

No, but they do have disappearing geometries to contend with, and do have access to practice ranges to get a feel for the weapons. And, IRL, weapons don't suddenly behave completely differently just because a new patch was released over the torrents. IRL it's much easier to judge the efficiency of weapons, etc and tell if you've hit stuff. Mainly because IRL stuff doesn't pixelate.

So, one squad is attacking an enemy position, the SL has suppressive fire and sends in an assault team, they clear it out. The only way they know they killed anyone is to see the dead bodies, get a kill count, then report back to Command, SL for that matter.

Of course, IRL bodies don't disappear after a few minutes or get called back into existence just around the corner a minute later...

The whole, "duuuude i killed so many people", it doesnt become the same, the only way you know is if you see the dead body, and you see that your gun shot him sort of.

Except here you have no way of knowing WHAT'S going on, because unlike real life, the tracers are cack, the graphics are grainey, and there's very little synergy between what you point at and it hitting. IRL you know if you had a bead on someone when you pulled the trigger, in PR you can have someone locked in your sites, and for various reasons the bullets fly all over the place. I know why this is the case, but I also know that without a hit indicator or kill-counter, no-one is gonna know if they're firing blanks or not, and have no method by which to refine their technique.

IRL you go to a target range, try different techniques, etc, get a "feel" for the weapon. In PR you can't do that, and you can't get a "feel" for the weapon if you don't know if you're hitting anything!

But if you want to play PR and play for teamwork, then playing without kdr doesnt matter, and it makes you more eligable to follow orders, ergo, taking away the kdr makes it better gameplay.

How do you figure there will be "better teamwork" when no-one in your squad can hit a damned thing because they have no way of figuring out if they're aiming right or wrong? I suppose a lot of weak-willed chumps might fall into line because they have no tangible way of proving their squad-leader's incompetent and getting them killed more than any other squad in the game, but is that really the sort of "teamwork" you want? People only "co-operating" because you're denying them the information to know better?

As for tactics, if you keep your squad alive, then the tactic works, therefor falling back is a very good tactic:P

Not really... If the time it takes you to fall back and regroup is the same time it takes your squad to die and run back, then it's a terrible tactic. If you die, regroup, run back in; you're all rearmed, at full health, and are coming from a different vector with knowledge of the enemy's position. Plus, there's a chance your suicide run might've inflicted casualties, rather than running away having achieved zilch...

[[R-CON]Tim270]

Originally Posted by Wicca

Well i cant imagine real soldiers running around checking their scores:P

This is a game.

Anyway, lets say this took effect, noone can see their kill scores.

So, one squad is attacking an enemy position, the SL has suppressive fire and sends in an assault team, they clear it out. The only way they know they killed anyone is to see the dead bodies, get a kill count, then report back to Command, SL for that matter.

How would you know who killed who?

The whole, "duuuude i killed so many people", it doesnt become the same, the only way you know is if you see the dead body, and you see that your gun shot him sort of.

And its just more realistic.

Yes, but then it would be very hard to keep a personal track of kills if you are in a position with multiple friendlies firing on someone, especially without scopes.

And yes, if the commander ask you, "WTH are you doing!?" and you say, "We are the ones racking up kills" and you have no proof for it, then thats the way it goes.

So if they have no proof why would the commander believe them.

If you want to play PR to rack up kills, (Even if you have no proof of showing it) and telling the commander to screw himself, then sure, be my guest. But if you want to play PR and play for teamwork, then playing without kdr doesnt matter, and it makes you more eligable to follow orders, ergo, taking away the kdr makes it better gameplay.

The blanket statement of it makes better game play is really unexplained in your post. I know personally that when I am playing in my squad I watch my KDR to see how many tickets I have taken from a team, or to see if I have killed anyone who I was firing at, this is all done in the direction of teamwork, I dont simply look at my kills and start to masturbate like you seem to think.

I hope you take away the kill count, i hate it when im the SL, and weve just been through a hardcore beating, and ive been trying hard to keep my squad alive, when i hear a squeeky little boys voice going, " i got 15 kills yaaay"... Then i feel that all i accomplished is nothing, its just sad.... sad...

Well you did accomplish something, your squad member took a fair few tickets off the enemy team and possibly killed a squad out of an area that you can now cap. How is that achieving nothing?

Points in Bold. I would rather have someone in my squad who gets 15 kills than someone who complains about being able to see how many they have killed.

[frrankosuave]

For those who don't want to know their score during game, name your squad, "NOSCORE" and then you can kick those people who periodically desire to get a data-point relative to how they are doing in game.

besides, what else are we to do when we are waiting xx seconds to respawn. How about this, remove the scores but lower the respawn to 3 seconds. That way there'll be no time to check score! Oh wait, you can get that flavor in vanilla...

[wookimonsta]

i can see that people want everyone to work towards teamwork.

but sometimes a squad that racks up the kills can be really useful.
on an insurgent map they aren't really, but on a map against conventional forces, say muttrah, a squad that whipes out two enemy squads and their rallies will be a significant setback to the enemy allowing your own forces to advance with less resistance.
not only that, but they also cost the enemy lots of tickets.
if a squad gets 70 kills, thats 70 tickets that the enemy no longer has.

[snooggums]

I would like to see squad scores during the round and individual scores only at the end of the game.

[TheLean]

Originally Posted by TF6049

Keep it. It lets you decide whether your target is down (important for high priority targets like enemy snipers).

I say remove it for the exact same reason!

[nick20404]

Originally Posted by TheLean

I say remove it for the exact same reason!

Read the thread, Kills don't appear for 30-60 seconds, so sitting around for that long to check your score would only hurt you not help you.