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Old 02-15-2009, 09:54 PM   #1
Fess|3-5|

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Default APC Change

With all of the noble intentions that come with he new APC system, no good has really come of it. APC's are still being used as Light tanks, and squads are still stuck without a ride.

Yes there are times when dedicated Mech. Infantry squads dominate, but in 90% of pub games, that organization isn't present. If you want to force Infantry to rely on APC's, you need to force the APC's to rely on the Infantry. Solution? Remove the LAV-25, WZ551, and Warrior. BTR-60 maybe. THe problem with all of those vehicles is that they have the uber 30mm cannons that allow them to move off and shred the enemy on their own. They need to be replaced by vehicles that are more stryker-like. In every public server I've seen, I've found that you are much more likely to encounter a Stryker working with infantry, then say an LAV, simply because a Stryker cannot go toe to toe against another APC. Since the attempt has been made to make the APC more Infantry oriented, make it so it can only engage Infantry. An example of a good replacement would be the AAVP7A1 for the LAV-25 (Please don't lock this as another AAVP7A1 suggestion thread, which it's not, that was just an example from the top of my head.)


Thoughts?

(And don't bother with "learn 2 apc noob" posts. This suggestion comes from frequent play in public servers.)


Suggested Replacements (inb4gomodelityerself)
  • USMC - AAVP7A1
  • BAF - FV432 'Bulldog'
  • PLA - Type 90 APC


or



Bring back Light transports and multi-seated trucks.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:01 PM   #2
Scot
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Default Re: APC Change

We could always bring Light Transport back...

Tbh, if we are forced to take IFV's out of game, well I'm gonna be angry.

Also, no matter if it's a .50 or a 30mm cannon, if there is something with armour, people will be scared and hide from it. The only difference being your Stryker would probably die more often.


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Last edited by Scot; 02-15-2009 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:08 PM   #3
Farks

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Default Re: APC Change

This is a player problem, not a PR problem. The best thing is to have an APC directly in your squad.

**ON INDEFINITE LEAVE FROM 4 JANUARY 2013 AND ONWARDS**
The language and concepts contained in this post are guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the place where the guy with the horns and pointed stick conducts his business.


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Old 02-15-2009, 10:10 PM   #4
vilhelm123

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Default Re: APC Change

Just because some players can't use an asset does not mean that said asset should be nerfed, for example...

75% of the people I've ever seen pick up a sniper kit can't shoot a barn door 3feet away, does that mean sniper rifles should be removed?

I'd say about 40-50% of the players I have seen get in helis have crashed them after about a minute or two of flight (if that sometimes) does that mean that helis should be removed because lots of players can't use them properly?

You don't seem to be thinking much further than the US forces, what are the Brits and Chinese going to use instead if you get rid of all cannon carrying apcs? Your asking for a huge amount of work modelling and coding to replace these vehicles and it just doesn't seem to be worth it.

Lots of love
Vilhelm xx
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:19 PM   #5
Fess|3-5|

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Default Re: APC Change

@Scot - That's good that infantry hide from APC's, they should be a force to be recokened with. But you should not have Hunter-Killer teams of APC's roaming around the map killing other APC's when there are infantry forced to walk to the front.

@Farks - I know it's a player problem. The biggest problem with PR is the players. No matter how realistic the mod is made to be, it will always be a game, and will always be played as a game. In a perfect world, having an APC in your squad that always worked with you would be the perfect solution, but you can almost always see an APC Squad take 3 APC's and run off tanking it up somewhere, leaving infantry alone and without a ride. This would make it much harder for APC's to go off and act as Light Tanks on their own.


@vilhelm - You present a good argument, but I think a Light Tank APC is more of a game changer than a bad sniper or bad pilot, simply because now Infantry are often left without a ride, and there is no comparable change that can be made for helicopters. Also my post has been expanded to include suggested vehicles, none of which I expect to get implemented.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:40 PM   #6
sentinel
Default Re: APC Change

I think apcs being used as "light tanks" is the only way you can use apc in some maps. Think Qwai on PLA side, i am not going to be a passenger in a map where there are tow humvees, no way. On the US side, i am not going to be a passenger in a map where there are tanks on the other side. Fools road, tanks and tow brdms, same thing. Kozelsk, tanks, at-guns and tow brdms. Insurgensy maps are pretty much the only maps that apc transport is kinda safe, only bombcars and ieds to worry about.

Walking is safer since it only takes 1 medic to stay behind to revive everybody after the rest of the squad is pwned.

"- Jackson_Action"
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:45 PM   #7
vilhelm123

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Default Re: APC Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fess|3-5| View Post
@vilhelm - You present a good argument, but I think a Light Tank APC is more of a game changer than a bad sniper or bad pilot, simply because now Infantry are often left without a ride, and there is no comparable change that can be made for helicopters. Also my post has been expanded to include suggested vehicles, none of which I expect to get implemented.
I understand your point mate but it just does seem to be a case of 'Can't code players'. I've seen (and i'm sure you've seen) some examples of apcs being used brilliantly with supporting infantry. I think a more subtle change is need rather than just removing them. Maybe something like you need 3 people in a squad to be allowed to crew an apc. Thus meaning that the apc is either under a SL's orders, has a responsibility to it's SM's or is part of a larger groups of apcs and tanks (an armoured squad if you will).

Lots of love
Vilhelm xx
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:49 PM   #8
Grim1316

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Default Re: APC Change

As a player who loves to run around in any type of armored vehicle, I have noticed that rarely do squads call for APC's to carry them. When I have a APC squad, I always try to take squads to the front lines because I know what happens when any type of armored asset gets to far ahead of the infantry especially on insurgency maps. This normally leads to destroyed APC/Tank/IFV. However I the rare occasion that I receive a request for pick up I try to get that squad to where ever they need to go. The biggest problem is that most squads that need pick up are(at least from the matches I have played) deep behind enemy lines. Because of that fact its impossible to get to them with out risking the APC. On that note, one of the most effective counters to APC's(besides HATs) is another APC. Don't forget that APCs fire support is sometimes more helpful then taking a full squad to some obscure place on the map, not always true but most of the time it is.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:02 PM   #9
Solid Knight
Default Re: APC Change

What are you talking about? Strykers and even HMMWVs are used as mobile machine gun nests. Really, you'd have to take the gun off. Even if it fired nothing but 9mm pistol rounds people would still use it to rape infantry.

Sounds like all you want APCs to do is be a taxi. While they can carry troops into combat on most maps it's better to leave the infantry dismounted rather than drive around and give some bastard eight kills and lose eighteen tickets.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:07 PM   #10
Fess|3-5|

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Default Re: APC Change

This suggestion is made because the DEV's seem like they are trying to force Infantryto work with APC's anyway by taking away all of the other methods of transport. If they're going to force them to work together, they might as well go all out (by implementing my suggestion). That or just bring back Light transports (even if they're unarmed).


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