Completely Removing the map with friendly positions for infantry

[.blend]

I think its time to stop worrying about the noobs messing up the game for the real teamplayers.
What i rly like about the suggestion is that itll give back the Commander to the game.

[badmojo420]

Originally Posted by LudacrisKill

Not a good idea, these ideas would maybe work with experienced players, however, with PR growing in popularity many new players are on the scene. Think how hard it will be for them to cope with these changes.

It will be even harder and more fustrating to have a nice functional team.

This IS a GAME, remember that, realism is good but lowering gameplay standards for realism is a STEP BACK in my opinion.

These 'changes' will only be changes to people who've played a lot of vBF2 or its mods. For people starting out fresh it will be the way it is. They won't know any different. And yes, i know since it is a mod, a lot of people will have played vBF2 before playing PR. But, honestly this would be more of a problem for people who've played PR for a long time. They would be used to doing things the way they do, and now we're changing a key element that will cause them to create new ways of doing the same things. It's a change for us. For new players or even people who haven't gotten used to PR's team work/squad system, it will be easier to not rely on pulling up the map and checking if they're friendly. They will naturally use their scope, or binoculars. Because, that's what they learned from the start.

I can't see this being any more damaging then removing the mini-map. Thats something that is in most shooting games, especially team shooters, and we've adapted nicely to that. Why not this too?

[badmojo420]

This change would go good with the new dependence on APCs coming in .85. If we kept the full map view for people in vehicles, your squad leader could jump in and check out the situation of the other squads and then make a decision based on that. Instead of carrying his portable blue force tracker around with him wherever he goes.

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by .blend

I think its time to stop worrying about the noobs messing up the game for the real teamplayers.
What i rly like about the suggestion is that itll give back the Commander to the game.

I can't see this suggestion leading into making Commander position more wanted one. On the contrary.

We already lack proper means of communication, pushing this responsibility more to Commanders alone wont work. Instead of making communication harder, it should be made easier.

The way I see it, this would lead into frustration and "being alone" feeling. Transports wouldn't know where to go... Team chat would be filled with pick-up/attack/support/defend requests among "I pwn u" one-liners. If someone would dare to take the commander spot, his most important task would be to act as a phone center and draw move-lines to transport squads so they'd know where to go and where to find people... I only see the worst in this.

[badmojo420]

Originally Posted by Engineer

We already lack proper means of communication, pushing this responsibility more to Commanders alone wont work. Instead of making communication harder, it should be made easier.

This won't hurt communications. You would still have voip with your squad, voip to commander, & text chat. Nothing lost.

Commanders would have a more important role because they can issue orders, not because they can communicate to other squads. If that was such an asset, more people would be commander now. And, not having a commander at all(even if everyone on the battlefield has the same map as him) is what hurts communication. Without a commander your team is forced to rely on text chat, which a good amount of people(rightfully so) don't pay attention to. Even if you know the players name, location, squad, etc. A commander that can voice to voice with him or his squad leader is better then being able to watch his dot move around on a map.

If these changes were implemented. People would want to be commander, not because they get to relay messages to all the squads, they would be commander because the squads, for the most part don't know what is going on elsewhere, and need direction. They only know whats happening where they are. So they would generally listen to someone who had a view of the bigger picture. Squads would, unlike now, follow a commanders orders, even in pub games.

When you have a team of upto 9 commanders and 23 soldiers (who know as much as the commanders) who wants to jump in and start bossing people around? Even as squad leader, i feel like people don't listen to you as much as they agree with your orders. I'm guilty of it myself, second guessing my commanding officer. When i see something they might have missed, or our priorities differs. I will offer my advice, or wander off course, or quit the squad. But, maybe he didn't miss it, and his actions were intentional. I have now allowed myself to question his authority, in front of the whole squad, so now other soldiers start to do the same. The seeds have been planted. Honestly, i try my best not to do this. To obey them blindly. But, the only reason i am tempted to question them, is because i am given all the facts and information they are.

McLuv and i have the same analogy in mind, in RTS games your units(squad or individuals) don't get to see whats happening anywhere but their own radius. So, they don't react, when your forces start getting wiped out somewhere else. Which is a good thing, because you don't want to come back and find them all grouped together, in front of the enemy's super weapon, half of them dead and the rest rushing in blindly, because all they can see are the bodies. The units wait for your orders, they follow your strategy, because isn't that the point of being commander? The game is in your hands, you win or lose. Your squads(and squad leaders) only responsibilities are to follow your orders and stay alive.

[cyberzomby]

I agree on that part. For the CO's its going to be great being the all knowing they should be. I would definatly want to see hows that like. Will need a lot of readjusting and the game will get a lot harder but it can work out good! :P

But for the players sake Im still not sure what is the best. Sure it helps the CO players a lot! (and thus myself cause I like the idea of being a CO like that) but It will give a lot of room for screwing up!

[wuschel]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

Like you said, texture is highly problematic, even on high end texutres. It would also be extremely hard to read the map thrown on the ground from a players perspective.

Why, the whole squad could use stare on the ground with their binoculars..

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Originally Posted by McLuv

Exactly the point. Wouldn't this heavily stress the need for a commander? i've listed the reasons I don't play as a commander anymore, and it's not because of his job. It's because the squads already coordinate themselves without the need for a commander, and therefore you don't actually get a say often in what's happening. Reducing a squad's awareness of every part of the battlefield and giving it to the commander gives his job mean, and value.

It doesn't matter if it would heavily stress need for a commander or not, there still won't be a commander most of the time. Even in 0.7 when Firebases were required to be placed by CO, not everyone went CO. You can't put something that important in the hands of a Commander who may never come.

-The JDAM is cosmetic, its not essential to winning.

-Spotting enemies is not essential to winning as you can hear them coming with your own sound, not CO's spots.

-Placing Firebases is essential to winning, but even in 0.7, you had an alternative of Rally Points so when your CO wasn't there half the time, you wouldn't be screwed.

-Seeing your squad and friendlies on the minimap "IS" issential to winning and not causing FF. Unless there is always someone there to be CO 100% of the time and knows what they are doing, then there is not point in taking away minimap.

Also, I guess you guys are forgetting the biggest thing. Take away the minimap, and then you would have every single squad on the team at 1 flag, and no one at any other flag because they would not be able to see friendlies there.......

Originally Posted by ChizNizzle

Its true that you arent briefed but u play those maps all the time so you know the place... Awarness is something to be considered tho.

And for working with another squad, SL1 must report to CO to get the position of closest squad, then CO must reply back to SL1 and give him rendezvous point, then talk to SL2 to stop moving (or go to a meeting point), and warn SL1 and SL2 from wich side both will be coming to avoid frendly fire... May be long lasting process but it would be awesome IMO

No, it would not be awesome.

1. No CO half the time. Don't put your team's faith in a person or smacktard who may never come. With 0.7, there was always alternatives to not having a CO. With this suggestion, you making a CO a REQUIREMENT, and unless you show me how you can get a compentent person in there 100% of the time, it isn't worth the risk.

2. Just because the CO gives the location of the nearest squad doesn't mean they will be there when you get there. If you can't view your minimap and see that they are getting wiped out, then you are essentially going to your own death by going straight into the fire. You wouldn't know to flank.

3. Not everyone has VOIP and just because you have a CO doesn't mean everyone magically begins to listen to him. I know for a fact that half the squads usually do not follow CO or are too slow with his orders from 0.7 and 0.8.



And as I said, I guess you guys are forgetting the biggest thing. Take away the minimap, and then you would have every single squad on the team at 1 flag, and no one at any other flag because they would not be able to see friendlies there.......

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Originally Posted by badmojo420

McLuv and i have the same analogy in mind, in RTS games your units(squad or individuals) don't get to see whats happening anywhere but their own radius.

That's the problem. In an RTS game, your units are Computer Controlled AI who follow your orders. This is with real people who aren't controlled and who aren't likely to follow your orders most of the time. Some don't even have VOIP or even talk to the commander in chat. And just because the CO gives them an order to link up with another squad doesn't mean it would work. For all I know, the CO could be sending my squad into a meat grinder or he could be sending all the units to 1 flag, but leaves the other totally undefended or unattacked.

[GoreZiad]

Everyone should have a topographical map.