Completely Removing the map with friendly positions for infantry

[badmojo420]

Originally Posted by cyberzomby

hmmm. This would be better for realism but would increase the hard-core level so much more! Remember all the shouting and stuff going on when they wanted to remove the mini-map onscreen? This will be such a thing as well.

What happens when your cut uff with your SL. Or when you spawn in later because you just joined? You got to wait for your SL.

In real life soldiers get to look at a map area for a lot of time to memorise the area before going in. We dont do that here. Thats why at least everyone needs a map.

People should retain the map with all the icons and players while they're dead and picking a spawn. I'm not sure if that is possible. But it would simulate, like you said, studying a map of the area before going in. So you would see where you squad is, and where you need to go from the location you are inserted. And if you leave or are kicked from a squad mid-life, just ask in squad chat or voip where everyone is. And you still have those 3d markers set by the SL.

Im not a huge fan of removing the icons as well. Remember not everyone has the best equipment to play PR. So those players will TK a lot more increasing irritation amongst there team killed players and themselves.

I have a computer which is more then i need to play PR on full settings at the resolution i do. And i still tk people from time to time because they honestly look like an enemy. But when it happens, i don't say "well this system is stupid, so i won't adapt to it, i'll just keep firing like i've been firing" instead i watch my fire and get other people looking at the target from other angles, check it with binoculars, etc. I find most people who play PR don't like TK'ing. More often then not, i've seen players who TK and then hesitate the next time they see an enemy. Also, in situations where you see a player on your map, but 2 players with your eyes. So you might open fire and kill the friendly. These types of situation would be avoided. The problem is, we know 100% fact, that one of those 2 guys is an enemy, the computer says so.

Dont forget that this is still somewhat of a game. For true realism go ARMA or OFP2 when its released.

True, extreme realism games are great and all, but i'm looking for the best team play i can find. Not the most realistic. And PR beats most other real world games(i dont like killing aliens and diving hoverjets) as far as team play is concerned. Where else can you play huge maps, with 64 people and loads of vehicles, and those people (for the most part) actually play as a team and not just for their personal k/d ratio. I've played many games in my life, but only been addicted to 3, Kingpin: Life of Crime, Counter-Strike, and ProjectReality. All team play heavy games, that still managed to be great shooters. I'm one of those people who loves to get first on the scoreboard and have 0 kills. Or get last, but know the few things i did helped the bigger picture.

I don't want these changes because they are what happens in the real world. They happen in the real world because they reinforce good team work. You follow your officers into battle, you don't get the same view of what going on. You shouldn't be able to pull up a map, watch blue dots start disappearing around you and say "screw this i'm ignoring the SLs and Commanders orders to hold this position and i'm running away" All you would know is that the SL ordered you to hold that position, so you're doing that. Currently there is no reason to be commander tho, because everyone has the same map. If it wasn't for SL voip and Area Attack it would be useless.

[cyberzomby]

Great Reply! Thanks

Well that TK story seems like a common story I had it myself as well. And dont get me wrong. Im not the guy that shoots anything that moves. I need to verify it first. By Binocs mostly and when I cant reach those because of a vehicle Im in I get the map.

btw! Have you seen Generation Kill? Its a tv series from HBO about a recon marine company in humvee's. One of the main charachters uses a blue force tracker. That machine shows where the friendly's are on a map. Its real-time. Dont forget that PR is several years in the future so it would not be that weird if those blue force trackers are more common in the army's. So that would justify at least friendly icons on your map.

If the dead and spawning soldiers get to look at the map the system is better. And ofcourse like you said you can talk to your fellow soldiers.

You shouldn't be able to pull up a map, watch blue dots start disappearing around you and say "screw this i'm ignoring the SLs and Commanders orders to hold this position and i'm running away" All you would know is that the SL ordered you to hold that position, so you're doing that. Currently there is no reason to be commander tho, because everyone has the same map. If it wasn't for SL voip and Area Attack it would be useless.

Do not agree with the first sentence in here (like I said the blue force tracker is available ) but I see the no friendlys on the map for regular sm's help for the reason you posted here. Sticking with your squad leader.
I dont get that a lot though. Usually when Im in a squad or squad lead we all stick with our squad.
But I can see it help though I only play on TG en T&T, its pretty solid there. But I can see it help on the not teamwork enforced servers.

I'm one of those people who loves to get first on the scoreboard and have 0 kills. Or get last, but know the few things i did helped the bigger picture.

Ditto I had a game last friday of Ejod where I spend almost the entire round watching the north arch in east city. Nothing happened around us but incase the enemy decided to show up we needed to be there. I fired 30 rounds that entire game :P And that was just to surpress instead of kill.

(just to show Im not one of those people that see's this as a FPS shooter that needs more arcade stuff)

[badmojo420]

I have seen generation kill, but not every soldier carriers around the blue force tracker. The one guy, Poke, even comments on how nice it is, so they're not even in every vehicle. But maybe all PR vehicles should have them, since we don't have mirrors, and can't shout out the window to look out behind. But mainly it's the infantry that should lose the ability.

It's not that the change would help people stick together. It would just make you more dependent on those people around you. If you didn't know there were 2 friendly squads just 50m behind that hill, would you act differently in that area? I think so. People would move as a unit, report friendlies as well as enemies. And generally rely on what you see happening versus seeing green arrows behind you on the map.

[cyberzomby]

on the tracker: I know. but thats current year. PR is several years ahead. So thats why I brought it up together with the statement that since PR is in the future its more spread troughout the army. Maybe even a portable infantry mans version for squadleader.

[Oak]

I proposed a similar suggestion here:
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...nder-only.html
The difference is that the OP's suggestion is

1. Better worded
2. More hardcore

So I definitely approve

It's hard to say without testing, but I really think something like that would propel PR to the next level of awesomeness.

[[R-DEV]fuzzhead]

Removing the map itself is unnecessary, however, removing moving-blues and only being able to see moving-greens and commander/SL-icons would finalize the step intended when the Garmin was removed from infantrymen. If anything, that is the BEST solution to make the Commander useful and the game, by far more realistic.

In perfect world, that would optimal, but Bf2 map is very hard to edit and have to make many compromises.

Ideally I would do it like this if it was easy to edit:

Squad Members - Map with just your own squad leader on it. You dont see vehicles, other players or even yourself. The only thing you see is your squad leader and objective markers placed by the game mode and your team.

Squad Leaders - Map with all friendly squad leaders and vehicles. You do not see blue infantry dots.

Commander - Same exact view as present.

This I think would be optimal for PR.

[Oak]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead

In perfect world, that would optimal, but Bf2 map is very hard to edit and have to make many compromises.

The idea proposed earlier in this thread - to make the map a form of weapon - could be used to circumvent that, perhaps. If the texture of the map could be dynamic (for example, to display the markers), maybe it could also display the location of other things - like other squad leaders.

It doesn't even have to be dynamic, just be updated whenever the map is used. Or perhaps every x seconds/minutes, regardless of map use.

[[R-DEV]fuzzhead]

be my guest, if you can figure a way we will be happy to integrate it immediately

farcry 2 had a really cool way of doing this..

[Solid Knight]

I'm all about having a minimal map.

SM -- Topographical map with markers only (nothing by markers, you keep track of where you are).
SL -- Same as above but can place markers for squad.
CMDR -- Vehicles positions and SL positions automatically updated along with markers. Will need new markers for marking friendly positions. Perhaps even a variety of friendly markers that vary in broadness.

Of course the downside to all this is that you won't be able to find those trouble makers via the map anymore. You might need to release an admin tool pack for that.

[DannyIMK]

the map is great now! don't change it anymore. i know that PR objective is realism but lets not forget fun and gameplay