[Ideas] PR Future Engine Ideas and Suggestions

[Elektro]

Feel the wrath of the C4 Engine

YouTube Video

[AquaticPenguin]

Originally Posted by TF6049

I agree. Veteran G[arry's]Mod plane builder/wiremodder, and I hate the fact that the maps are so small and the speeds maxed at about 100 mph (though there are mods to remove the speedcap)

Source would work for something like Karkand, but not much bigger.

Hitscan is also a problem. Though some modders have implemented ballistics similar to BF2 in GMod, the maps are simply too small. But perhaps the source engine could be modded to incorporate bigger maps.

Oh, and one more thing: PR should be free to play, if not $10 or less - it already is, and though the DEVs work hard, it would be unfair to some of the players out there. Also, if you charge money for a game that drastically reduces the amount of people who will take it up as a long-time choice. Lastly, let us not forget why EA is so horrible - greed.

Part of the advantage of a pay-to-play is that you get more committed players, who are likely to stick with the game for a long time. Also changing from a mod to a retail game makes the targets audience much larger as they're not limited to a single game (bf2), and part of the revenue can be spent on marketing to get the game better known.

I don't think it's unfair on players, and I don't think you can take a moral high ground when they've been giving something for free for quite so long. I also imagine the minimum spec will go up and some people won't be able to run the game but I don't think that's unfair either. There has to be some progress, and with the new engine they can do basically anything provided it's a worthwhile venture.

[Vakaris]

I've noticed a few flaws in the "C4 engine", the big gumball can't stop roling, it is bigger and obviously heavyer then the others, yet it moves slower downhill which is a huge bug, the engine basicly sucks compared to some of the other engines we currently have out there and fro mwhat I see it eats a ton of resoruces. The wall also fell into cubes and not dust or anything else, and those cubes seem to roll just fine jsut like the balls. Basicly it's worse then the current BF2 engine.

On other matters, if the game is made pay-to-play I garuantee it will loose atlast 60% of the players it has now, including me, and that is a lot consithering there are only 2-4 full servers 9am-03am +2GMT. I've seen more full servers on Serious Sam (released on year 2000) then here and that should be a big blow to some of the people here.

Bottom line - C4 engine does NOT seem better then the current and pay-to-play policy would be a disaster for the PR community as well as the PR team.

[DannyIMK]

if PR is going to be pay to play can you do a sms payment? for those that don't have credit card/paypal etc?

[Leopardi]

Battlefield 3 engine is the obvious choice?

[Vakaris]

Originally Posted by DannyIMK

if PR is going to be pay to play can you do a sms payment? for those that don't have credit card/paypal etc?

I don't think they'll go to pay-to-play because there's more loss then win to it.

Originally Posted by Leopardi

Battlefield 3 engine is the obvious choice?

Does the BF3 engine even exist?

[[R-CON]ChiefRyza]

Vakaris you understand how much work the DEV's pour into this mod for the little appreciation they get? Then they decide they want a little extra for their efforts, and people like you rock up telling them "it will destroy the community" etc, etc, etc.

If you want a better engine then go save up a couple hundred thousand dollars and fund the DEV's. The engine the DEVS will use however is not up to you, so do a little research and show some respect to the guys doing this all for free, instead of treating them like mere slaves for the development of a game you enjoy. If you like PR enough I would imagine you could fork out 30 bucks a year. I personally think it is worth much, much more than that.

And bugger the Battlefield series, if PR was to become another mod (which it won't) then I certainly wouldn't go with the most unsupportive, uptight games company in the world.

[Vakaris]

Originally Posted by ChiefRyza

Vakaris you understand how much work the DEV's pour into this mod for the little appreciation they get? Then they decide they want a little extra for their efforts, and people like you rock up telling them "it will destroy the community" etc, etc, etc.

If you want a better engine then go save up a couple hundred thousand dollars and fund the DEV's. The engine the DEVS will use however is not up to you, so do a little research and show some respect to the guys doing this all for free, instead of treating them like mere slaves for the development of a game you enjoy. If you like PR enough I would imagine you could fork out 30 bucks a year. I personally think it is worth much, much more than that.

And bugger the Battlefield series, if PR was to become another mod (which it won't) then I certainly wouldn't go with the most unsupportive, uptight games company in the world.

If you would pay to play the game, go ahead and doante monthly. The majority of the community will not pay, that is written black on white. What are they going to do with a few hundred a month if only 5 to 20 players are playing isntead of hundreds or thousands? Pay to play games also have one "small" problem they have to deal with every second of theif popularity - pirates. A good example would be Lineage 2: pirates cracked, "unofficiual" servers began to pop up soon after, the server code was out to the masses and there were actualy some realy sucsessfull servers. Some had 5-20 players daily, some had one to ten THOUSAND players online all the time. All the admins asked in return was for us to have fun, and we did. Then it got updated into a newer patch which sucked, the server fell to pieces, blah blah blah... You don't need to know more then that.

Personaly, I like the current engine as it is, don't like it, buy them a new one. Sure the graphics are a bit buggy, maps are crude and when you look far away you see the terrain flickering liek a badly drawn flash game. Aside form that - it's a great game and doesn't need a new engine.

[AquaticPenguin]

Originally Posted by Vakaris

I've noticed a few flaws in the "C4 engine", the big gumball can't stop roling, it is bigger and obviously heavyer then the others yet it moves slower downhill which is a huge bug.

As they have said in this thread a couple of times, the physics engine in C4 is a WIP, and is set for the next major release of the engine. The physics is network aware physics (vital for a future PR if we want to have good vehicles/bullet dynamics/rigid bodies). If all else fails then the devs can implement a third party physics engine like the Bullet engine which is open source and very powerful.

Also, what is the error in the physics. If I've seen the same video as you of the physics tour then they explain the reason the ball can't stop rolling is because the angular damping is set low. And the reason it moves slower downhill is because the objects are under the same force of gravity, so the larger mass and greater rolling resistance means that its acceleration is lower than that of the smaller gumballs.

Originally Posted by Vakaris

the engine basicly sucks compared to some of the other engines we currently have out there and fro mwhat I see it eats a ton of resoruces.

You shouldn't be comparing the engine to modern, corporate game engines because the engine is designed for indie games as being a good platform for people who just want to experiment and not have to worry about writing their own engine. The performance of the engine is not too bad either. The physics simulation video shows hundreds of rigid bodies under the influence of many forces and colliding with each other in real-time at a pretty reasonable frame rate.

The wall also fell into cubes and not dust or anything else, and those cubes seem to roll just fine jsut like the balls. Basicly it's worse then the current BF2 engine.

Graphically it has better water, the possibility of custom shaders, voxel terrain which allows overhangs and destructible terrain and soon-to-be dynamic loading of voxel terrain which makes theoretically unlimited terrain sizes possible. If I read the website correctly they also get the source code which they can adapt to suit them better if needed, and this may also give the possibility of doing more complicated shaders via shader language or through the shader editor like SSAO, paralax mapping, subsurface scattering etc.

Another advantage of the engine is the developer is very actively listening to his customers and developing. There is a forum for the engine with a few experts and a lot of active members so there's plenty of support.

On other matters, if the game is made pay-to-play I garuantee it will loose atlast 60% of the players it has now, including me, and that is a lot consithering there are only 2-4 full servers 9am-03am +2GMT. I've seen more full servers on Serious Sam (released on year 2000) then here and that should be a big blow to some of the people here.

I think, if anything, more people will join than will be lost since the game would no longer be tied to BF2.. and the advantage of having a pay-to-play system is that the players you get are more commited less likely to hack and act immature. Either way I think this is a bit speculative and lets see what the devs get up to before we make assumptions.

Bottom line - C4 engine does NOT seem better then the current and pay-to-play policy would be a disaster for the PR community as well as the PR team.

Well PR2 is in alpha and the devs are working on both so any complaints are fairly groundless. The devs brought the engine themselves and deserve to get something out of it which isn't complaints about how it could be pay-to-play, and you haven't really looked at the engine in detail to discover that it's a good and competitive engine for indie games. Besides, PR1 development won't stop unless PR2 makes it off the ground.

edit:

If you would pay to play the game, go ahead and doante monthly. The majority of the community will not pay, that is written black on white.

Currently PR is limited to being a bf2 mod... That means only people who pay for bf2 can play PR. Running on an independant engine means people will actively buy the game rather than acquiring the mod. A pay-to-play subscription would mean that people can try it without having to shell out money for it... Basically if it's a good game, people will buy it, and I'm sure many people who had played the mod would buy it if they liked the mod.

Pay to play games also have one "small" problem they have to deal with every second of theif popularity - pirates.

From what I've seen pirating doesn't happen as much on small indie games where there isn't much to gain. Yes maybe lineage 2 was cracked, but how many games are there out there which haven't be cracked?

[Vakaris]

[QUOTE=AquaticPenguin;1134694]As they have said in this thread a couple of times, the physics engine in C4 is a WIP, and is set for the next major release of the engine. The physics is network aware physics (vital for a future PR if we want to have good vehicles/bullet dynamics/rigid bodies). If all else fails then the devs can implement a third party physics engine like the Bullet engine which is open source and very powerful.

Also, what is the error in the physics. If I've seen the same video as you of the physics tour then they explain the reason the ball can't stop rolling is because the angular damping is set low. And the reason it moves slower downhill is because the objects are under the same force of gravity, so the larger mass and greater rolling resistance means that its acceleration is lower than that of the smaller gumballs.



You shouldn't be comparing the engine to modern, corporate game engines because the engine is designed for indie games as being a good platform for people who just want to experiment and not have to worry about writing their own engine. The performance of the engine is not too bad either. The physics simulation video shows hundreds of rigid bodies under the influence of many forces and colliding with each other in real-time at a pretty reasonable frame rate.



Graphically it has better water, the possibility of custom shaders, voxel terrain which allows overhangs and destructible terrain and soon-to-be dynamic loading of voxel terrain which makes theoretically unlimited terrain sizes possible. If I read the website correctly they also get the source code which they can adapt to suit them better if needed, and this may also give the possibility of doing more complicated shaders via shader language or through the shader editor like SSAO, paralax mapping, subsurface scattering etc.

Another advantage of the engine is the developer is very actively listening to his customers and developing. There is a forum for the engine with a few experts and a lot of active members so there's plenty of support.



I think, if anything, more people will join than will be lost since the game would no longer be tied to BF2.. and the advantage of having a pay-to-play system is that the players you get are more commited less likely to hack and act immature. Either way I think this is a bit speculative and lets see what the devs get up to before we make assumptions.



Well PR2 is in alpha and the devs are working on both so any complaints are fairly groundless. The devs brought the engine themselves and deserve to get something out of it which isn't complaints about how it could be pay-to-play, and you haven't really looked at the engine in detail to discover that it's a good and competitive engine for indie games. Besides, PR1 development won't stop unless PR2 makes it off the ground.

edit:



Currently PR is limited to being a bf2 mod... That means only people who pay for bf2 can play PR. Running on an independant engine means people will actively buy the game rather than acquiring the mod. A pay-to-play subscription would mean that people can try it without having to shell out money for it... Basically if it's a good game, people will buy it, and I'm sure many people who had played the mod would buy it if they liked the mod.



From what I've seen pirating doesn't happen as much on small indie games where there isn't much to gain. Yes maybe lineage 2 was cracked, but how many games are there out there which haven't be cracked?[/QUOTE]

1.But the object is heavyer with sise and it has a bigger outline, it rolls slower, yes, but it rolls faster, that they failed to understand. I hate it when people without even the basic knoledge of physics try to make game-engines...

2.You can get more frames for the ammout of stres you give to the engine by just using the CryTec engine, it doesn't mow down frames like a batalion of gazzels mows down grass for each little new object.

3.A lot of members, twice the misstakes and the missleads.

4.So what? You mean you're only mature if you pay? I know tons of kids that see a game and make their parents buy a membership for them then fuck everything up and make thier parents buy a new one just to fuck up again. A mature person wouldn't even bother to pay for a game when he can just hack it.

5.Wow an other version of the rumor... One seconds I hear they didn't dconither which to get, the next seconds I hear that they bought it, a few moments later I hear that they're gonig for a diffrent engine... Well which one is it? I haven't seen a thread so far where anyone would admit to buying anything.

6.Everything from Serious Sam The First Enouncter to Grand Theft Auto 4 has been cracked moments after their release. And some games were cracked even before their retail release.

Offtopic:
GTA4's MP sucks because it has a currently unbreakable ping limit
if it exceeds 25 you get kicked fro mthe server, even if it's your own
for me that is a compelete waste of money because even playing with
those that live where I live my ping is 100 (at game start) and
5 (at normal gameplay), my fiend's ping goes from 300 (at the start)
and keeps jumping from 20 to 40. That means we can't play.
What ever you do - DO NOT BUY GTA4, you can get the same thing
even with less bugs if you crack it.