Change the handling of MG

[badmojo420]

Sounds like the OP wants the MG from 0.75. The reason they added deployed mode is that they can't change the accuracy/deviation of a weapon while prone, and have it different while standing. And sure they could change the animation on deployed mode so he'd maybe flip the bipod down and be done, but then you'd have people throwing grenades and whipping out their LMG's faster then a rifleman could pull out his m16. Because if you switched to the deployed mode right off, it would skip all the prep in the undeployed animation. BF2 engine, gotta love it.

[the other Steve]

bf2 engine.. gotta hate it
im for the OP.

[AnRK]

Originally Posted by the other Steve

bf2 engine.. gotta hate it

To re-iterate what I said in another thread, the BF2 does a great job considering the complexity of what actually occurs in vanilla, nevermind everything the PR mod demands of it. It's an old engine, but runs more smoothly then some newer engines when it comes to multi platform combat.

[Solid Knight]

Originally Posted by AnRK

What he says...





Just to back it up some more, see how the guys in the background are using their PKMs. You wouldn't stand up holding your MG by the stock only looking down the sights like that would you? Gotta love that US soldier with his cheesy grin there don't you



No they don't, deviation is intended to re-create the weapon due to it's weight, size, how it's held and the effect these have when you move with it. Your moving of the mouse simulates your intention to move, deviation simulates the effect that movement has.

So you move your mouse to do a quick 180 turn, your weapons weight etc will make you unstable, since soldiers are generally don't weigh 20 stone of pure muscle with weapon familiarity the SAS could only dream of.

You should look at the solider animations when they lay down. They change their grip of the weapon automatically.

You are incorrect. Fire any weapon on full auto. Notice that your gun progressively moves upwards? That's from the crazy recoil in the game. There are, two methods of modeling deviation being used at the exact same time and they aren't being used to complement each other. If they are going to bounce my camera around (and thus bounce where my weapon is point around) then they need to make the deviation code suit that style. If they're going to use the deviation code to model it then they need to tone down the camera bouncing. What they currently have is an every expanding deviation cone and an ever more violent camera bounce.

[AnRK]

The deviation system isn't exactly finished though yet. I still think it's right to use both the methods though, it adds more variation into the effect your firearm handling has. Recoil and Deviation in tandem come out with a theoretically realistic effect from firing and weapon handling, you need recoil (obviously) to recreate the power of the firearm, and you need deviation to simulate how a soldier would have to deal with that recoil. If you choose to fire wisely, taking breaks between shots and steadily tracking targets you will fire accurately, this doesn't always pan out at the moment, but as said before the system still need alot of refinement.

In simpler terms without recoil (which I'm not saying you'd advocate obviously) people could theoretically fire accurately as their weapons accuracy permits them as long as they did it steadily. Without deviation people can aim all over the place as long as they don't keep the trigger down too long or too often. So we need both systems, and it's good that they exacerbate each other.

I see your points with regards to the camera movement, and the fact it would seem the weapons act like they're half their weight, but with the camera thing you can't make anything other then the centre of the screen where the projectile originates from, and since there's no way of animating deviation and recoil properly I think it's better for the camera to move erratically then to be second guessing where you might be firing even more then you have to do with the deviation system sometimes.

Fair point about the lying down animation too, but I think the problem is that you can't put a delay on firing after your in the prone position (I think that's the problem anyway) to simulate readying yourself in that position, also if that was in game you'd have the trade off of always having to wait to fire when you go prone. Plus you can't simulate the time needed to get out of the optimum prone firing position before standing up or kneeling as far as I'm aware either.

[Solid Knight]

I'm saying they need to complement each other. You don't have wild deviation and wild camera movement at the same time. In fact, they should have animations and deviation code simulate the jostling of the weapon in your arms and have a small degree of camera movement. What I'm against is having the point-at-the-sky camera movement which makes no sense. It'd be physically impossible just about all of these guns to do that. If you taped the trigger of a SAW down and let go it wouldn't defy gravity and flip over on the Y axis. As such the only way for you to look at the sky by firing a weapon full auto is to willingly do so. It'd have to be intentional 100% of the time.

[Ondskan]

Agreed!

Once again an example of this game going to far out, chasing realism and only ending up with "harder than realism" examples.


Edit: Obviously there is a difference between deployed and undeployed in reality and it takes a sec to unfold the bipods. But it definetly doesn't take that long.


Other examples include the AT.

What the hell is the guy doing grabbing it all over like he's in love with it and about to do it.
Switching it from left to right hand, feeling it, turning it around...common.

[daranz]

Originally Posted by Ondskan

Other examples include the AT.

What the hell is the guy doing grabbing it all over like he's in love with it and about to do it.
Switching it from left to right hand, feeling it, turning it around...common.

At-4 has two safeties, and a cocking lever that need to be prepared in order for the weapon to fire, in addition to flip-up sights and a fold-down shoulder strap. Maybe the animation doesn't show what's going on very well, but you can't just draw an AT-4 out of a leg holster and shoot it at an APC 2 seconds later.



I do agree on the SAW animations being overly exaggerated, but that topic has been honestly done to death by now.

[Solid Knight]

He was referring to the SRAW, not the AT4.

[daranz]

Originally Posted by Solid Knight

He was referring to the SRAW, not the AT4.

My point still stands. Maybe the animation could be better but it's there to represent the fact that getting an AT launcher ready isn't as simple as pulling out your knife. But, we're getting kinda off-topic here.