Officer & Commander Training Course

[Michael_Denmark]

Originally Posted by ralfidude

Lawer

Its not really possible to teach you how to be a commander or SL. Unless you want to learn how to place rallies, and accept requests, that sort of thing. .

What is that opinion based on?

You see, I know it can be done.

My opinion is based on experience with the very same.

[ralfidude]

Well, if he doesnt learn to be a good SL from being a squad with a good SL, then teaching him by just telling him what to do as an SL will be fake. It wont feel natural. He will get the gist for it, but the BEST way to learn that is to just learn from being in a squad.

[cyberzomby]

I agree. And thats why you see this in the real military as well. First they get a classroom example and then they go out in the field for excersises and real life training!

[Sparatan117]

Originally Posted by cyberzomby

I agree. And thats why you see this in the real military as well. First they get a classroom example and then they go out in the field for excersises and real life training!

haha BNOC 18 week course...not looking forward to it

[Lawer01]

Personally i don't have any problem with leading a squad or commanding a team. I just think I'm playing a strategic game with voice like End War. My main problem was that there are SL's and CO's who are totally incompetent and because of that the whole team suck and we lose important tickets and assets.

Example: 4th time i was playing as a CO at...i think it was Ramiel. So i had grate squads a HUMVE squad, a sniper squad, 1 well oiled inf squad,( I don't remember the name of the SL but he/she/it did really nice work) and 1 really bad inf squad, 1 striker squad and the Apache squad. Main problem was that nobody reported anything except the HUMVE and the better inf squad. Thees to squads were active and told me about enemy movements and FB's (or as we call it on insmod craphouse.) But the other squads war almost silent all the time and they didn't followed orders.

The main goal of this training would be to train people who are really qualified for leading a squad or commanding a team. They would represent that if they are around, teamwork and fun will be provided in that round.

[rampo]

how the feawelbauchwonwuuhwaah r u gonna learn squadleading whitout squadmembers!? squadleadins something you can only learn by going to a server and make a squad.

[[R-DEV]Sniperdog]

IMO the best way to do something like this is with a "master and apprentice". The master squad leads at first with the apprentice in his squad explaining what he is doing to the apprentice in a vent ts or something to that sort. Then when the master feels the apprentice is ready he lets the apprentice lead the squad while he works in it and watches and then after the round he gives him suggestions and tells him some things he did right and did wrong.

I think the best way to initiate a system like this would be if one or two extremely experienced PR players (possibly R-Cons or R-Devs) start a program where they pick out people who they know are good squad leaders or accept applications to teach in the program and then evaluate to make sure the people are ready for it. From there they go public with the program and allow trainees to apply for the course. When the people apply they get paired up with one of the masters, and the apprentice and the master work together to find a time they can both be on and go to a pub to make a squad and do exactly what I talked about above.

Why would this work? A few reasons.

1. Other than pairing up the people together there is little or no preparation required.
2. The only physical resource required for the entire program is a single vent or TS where the Master and Apprentice pairs could have a private place to discuss what happens.
3. There is no classroom type work required where a person might get bored or turned off from it.
4. The tips and advice are very personalized to the apprentice.
5. It is easy to find a time for the two people to work together because its only two of them.
6. The Apprentice gets hands on experience.
7. The Apprentice will learn to work with random people on a pub server under supervision as these are the kinds of people he would have to work with after graduation.

Ideally the people who start the program could come up with a list of topics that the master should make sure he covers at some point with the apprentice during rounds to make sure the apprentice is prepared for everything they might come across in a real game. When the master feels that the person is ready to graduate from the program he will send the request up to the masters of the program and they will evaluate the person to be sure they are ready.
Eventually if a program like this proves successful it could even be adopted as an official program for PR where certified graduates could be given some sort of in game symbol which indicates that they are commissioned "PR Officers" so that when noobies or the likes join a server they can see people who they know will be competent leaders. One of the nice things about a program like this over the long term is eventually the people who are graduates from the program could come back and serve as teachers. I feel that a program like this could help make the random chaos that usually ensues on a pub server into a mildly organized chaos where commanders could know who they can depend on and squad leaders could know which other squad leaders they could communicate with and work together with. It could really take this game which is already awesome and make it incredible. Tell me what you think guys .

~Sniperdog

[Royal_marine_machine]

Well, if the Commander Tactics forum was more active, you could discuss tactics in there for commanding, then try it in the feild.

For squad leader, then being a squadmate and then a squad leader, or reading through the infantry tactics forum etc.

[Jonny]

It takes a LONG time to train an SL from scratch to be as proficient as the average willing SL is now.

First you have to make sure they know how to fight, and they need to be VERY proficient at it too.

Then you have to get them to notice what goes right, what goes wrong, and most importantly why. They must learn to notice when something is beginning to fail, which is VERY difficult. This takes a hell of a long time in itself, and does not necessarily produce a decent SL. They then have to be taught how to come up with a plan, analyse it, and modify it in the field while it is being executed. Only then do youhave a decent SL.

COs are another league above this. They need to know how to fight on foot, in a vehicle and how to use an aircraft. They have to be able to see whn something is failing witout being anywhere near it. They also have to predict the future, ie when they will want supplies or reinforcements somewhere. They have to come up with a basic plan, an modify it continually without forgetting about the overall goal, and with continuous relaying of information from squad to squad and endless events that threaten the plans success.

I have led sections/platoons (note: a lot bigger than squads) several times, and it has generally come out successfully, but I dont consider myself a decent CO. I am just a field commander at most, organising assaults on my designated target.

You have no idea how hard proper commanding can be until you try that, even with being able to trust every single person under your command to get any job done that you may give them.

[AlphaClient]

I think what Micheal has proposed is a great idea. I also agree on all parts of the people saying a good SL/CO is learned through the ranks of grunt, SL, CO. Most good squad leaders will tell you what kit, what stack position and what his ROE's are, like do not engage unless engaged- FIRE AT WILL!! kind of stuff. To me that is a direct indicator that he has been through this before. Someone mentioned joining a server and learing from the SL of the squad you join. Most of the time this is a good idea and if you jump around you will find the guy I described above. Sometimes you will run into the less inept who could spend some time in a server like Micheal describes and hopefully T&T puts up.
All in all I would suggest having two or even three different types of trainning. Any of you who have played America's Army and actually completed trainning would know what this is like. For PR the scenario you would be learning the grunt stuff: how to communicate, give coords, be a medic, squad movements and lasing targets - beginner. Then the more advanced stuff like Leading a squad, tactics and stuff like that. All placed at a shooting range. I don't remember the map name but there is one already set up for it, just needs to be convrted to trainning. - The reason I make the reference to AA is because it taught you how to fire the weapon, go prone, all of the stuff you basically have to figure out on your own or ask if you didn't read the manual. And even the manual doesn't cover everything.
I think the roaming around approach might be good also. If the map is set up in stations to learn things, people will have a more "discovering" attitude towards it. I agree with ya though Micheal that structure would need to be present so intrest is not lost on lesson 3.