Project Reality v0.8 Improvement Compilation

[mp5punk]

dang lol lots of reading too do.

[Kill001]

That was the best review/response I have read in my life....

Ooh, the FLIR thing sounds neat!

[[R-DEV]fuzzhead]

Hey warren...

well just like you man, all the PR devs have lives too.... back when I replied to that post I had very little or no time to work on PR, but I saw your post and saw you poured alot of time in it, so I figured I would write a detailed response with a clear opinion and gave you the chance to help PR out like all the other people who are highly motivated and dedicated to the mod (the other devs and cons and community leaders). You took that as an insult, saying that because you made a list, THE DEV TEAM should be the ones to implement it as quickly as possible because we owe it to you. I think with that attitude, PR would be like most other mods with no playerbase and no direction. Its because people STEPPED UP, TOOK RESPONSIBILITY and GOT TO WORK that this mod is where its at today. If you dont have the time or desire to do that its completely understandable, but the thing that pisses me off is players thinking that the dev team is OBLIGATED to work on all their suggestions and nitpicks quickly.

I just saw your response now in october (like I said Ive been prety inactive) so maybe your no longer feeling the same way, but I sense some anger and frustration in your reply. The thing with PR is that if you want changes to the game, you got to do them yourself or at least contact the right people to help these changes along. Prety much every developer of PR were players FIRST, and the main reason they started developing was because they saw something lacking and had the courage / ambition to start modding it themselves.

Anyways, since I'm more active now and been working on v0.85, most of the comments that I wrote in my response with blue text has been addressed. We dont agree on some points, and I agree with mescaldrav that the majority of that list is prety trivial and NOT something that affects gameplay in a major way. I didnt see anything in that list that hampers gameplay to the point of not playing any more, but obviously we each have our own priorities.

Just remember that this is not a paid team, no one gets any money for doing anything, so your complaint that it takes us 3-4 months to get a release out the door just makes all the devs sigh a bit and go "well theres another guy who thinks we OWE it to them to work faster". Were trying our best and will continue to do so, putting teamwork and realism on the #1 priority for the mods gameplay.

[[R-DEV]Jaymz]

Originally Posted by Warren

C. The PGZ-95 AAV has a SEVERE loss in missle detection range. The missles only begin to detect and track enemy air units if they are less than 450 meters away. This is not the detection range AAV's were to intended to have, as they are all supposed to have a baseline detection radius of 1500 meters.

D. The PGZ-95 AAV also has an unusually weak 25mm cannon velocity. The trejectory of rounds appear to "lob" themselves over to targets rather than shooting directly at it similar to almost all other AAV's.

Both issues addressed for 0.85.

[the other Steve]

fuzzhead.

he made a list whit bugs and gameplay that needs to be adressed. (i am replieng to the first post.) adress it or not. his points stand still. and his list is far more constructive as most other things on this forums.

[Fearosius]

Wow, good read took me about half-an-hour, I agree on higher ROF on all rifles, etc.

[M.Warren]

In answer to fuzzheads statements.

I myself do not have the particular resources to do my own work for Project Reality. My biggest and only intrest would be to create and render new vehicle models. However, that would take 3D softwear and a more modern computer to properly render and perform the necessary operations.

To the best of my knowledge, the only thing Project Reality encourages the most is common users to build maps. Afterall, there is a forum dedicated specifically for map making and is open to be read by the public.

Personally, I feel there is enough maps being created by the other community modders. Reason why Project Reality most likely encourages people to make maps is the simple fact that it is open-ended. You can make any map you want, anywhere you want, with any vehicles or factions you want. As long as it makes logical sense and basically represents a true location in the world... With that said, it doesn't take as much know-how compared to some other things that need to be taken care of. Things like scripting, coding, bug detection, etc.

On another note, in referance to the Improvement Compilation list being "trivial", it was exactly designed with that in mind. Which is no suprise to me. Reason being is that I am fully aware of the larger issues that PR faces. However, the main issue here is that the PR Developers are firmly aware of these "larger" issues. As such, results in the PR Developers spending a hefty amount of time on objects that yield painfully slow results.

This list was made specifically to confront the simpler fixes that have apparently been overlooked in large numbers. So, if this list does infact appear "trivial" then it has suceeded in it's attempts to cover the smaller details in game.

Afterall, that's why I made the list to begin with. I figured it was better than spending 48 hours beating a dead-horse on how to create the perfect view on weapon deviation. Especially seeing that it still hasn't been solved for the past 2 or so years.

I am also aware that Project Reality is based upon volunteer work. But because it's volunteer work, does this mean that it must be subjected to lower standards or a generally laxxed approach on certain important topics?

As far as I am concerned, I feel volunteers should perform equal to or better than a paid organization. Reason being is that we put our heart, our time and our effort into something we enjoy. We do what we can to make ends meet, but hopefully our dilligence and devotion will succeed over our loss of expertise and resources. I have a job aswell and I get paid for it, and to be honest if it wasn't for the money I could care less. I'd rather be retired.

The same goes for almost any other human being. Think about it. If you pull up to a McDonalds drive-thru and you just paid for a BigMac you think you're going to get Napoleonic era wine and Foie Gras? Hell no. I consider Project Reality that quiet self-owned deli around the cornor that serves up the best damn Italian hero you've ever known.

Let it be known, there will always be a battle between the Developers and the Community. Remember that all decisions the developers make; both simple and difficult, are the burdens that the Community has to bear. Wise choices must be made over reckless ones. Any decision made effects both sides of the fence.

While Developers are thinking of a new approach of gameplay, the Community is under the boot screaming to get your foot off of our heads. Then, finally at the end of the 3-4 month wait for a new update; the foot finally stops dragging us through the mud. Or atleast hopefully stopped being dragged through the mud. Then people wonder why we're frustrated sometimes.

But then again, Project Reality has done some shady things in the past and quietly slipped us a change in gameplay without us knowing. Especially at times without the community's conscent or opinion.

Kinda like how 85% of the players thought v0.8 was going to be like v0.75 but with new maps, new vehicles and new animations. Not the fact that our weapons were going to have downsyndrome hardcoded into it, as a figure of speech... But, I haven't complained about it on the forums before this moment.

Oddly enough, here we are disputing large and small details between eachother. Heated arguements may ensue, but it's all a comedy. Why? Because both Developer and Community are devoted to the similar perspectives and intrests. Both sides are striving to accomplish the same goals --- an excellent Project Reality.

We're divided but unified in our cause.

[Waaah_Wah]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead

and I agree with mescaldrav that the majority of that list is prety trivial and NOT something that affects gameplay in a major way. I didnt see anything in that list that hampers gameplay to the point of not playing any more, but obviously we each have our own priorities.

"And many strokes, though with a little axe, Hew down and fell the hardest- timbered oak"

[Tirak]

Hey Warren, I had asked a while back if anyone knew of any good free modeling programs and this was the response. Perhaps it's what you need.

Originally Posted by Cyrax-Sektor

Turbo Squid -- gmax

I have it installed, with some BF2 related modeling tools: Filecloud - BF2 Editor Gmax Plug-ins 1.0b

It may not be needed, but I haven't noticed a difference in the Editor, unless it's slower and less responsive now.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by M.Warren

To the best of my knowledge, the only thing Project Reality encourages the most is common users to build maps. Afterall, there is a forum dedicated specifically for map making and is open to be read by the public.

Personally, I feel there is enough maps being created by the other community modders. Reason why Project Reality most likely encourages people to make maps is the simple fact that it is open-ended. You can make any map you want, anywhere you want, with any vehicles or factions you want. As long as it makes logical sense and basically represents a true location in the world... With that said, it doesn't take as much know-how compared to some other things that need to be taken care of. Things like scripting, coding, bug detection, etc.

Making maps is not something that is simple and that any one can do, just like any of these its hard to do these things well. the "community modding forum" is in fact to encourage all forums of modding, if you in fact take a look in there you will find models being made, things being exported and coded, textures being made with also the maps which are the most common in there, but take a note, none of them are by the devs, just some of the maps / models or w/e in there, the people making them get made devs for there good work, ie, coderedfox as a good recent example. The fact is why there is mainly maps in there is the learning curve for mapping is not as steep as it is for coding, modelling etc, this is mainly down to all the very detailed tuts we offer to the BF2 modding community, many made by myself. If it wasn't for any of these tuts and only the EA/DICE tuts then I can grantee you that there would be next to no maps being made in there, and PR would have much fewer maps than it has now. I can tell you, I started off mapping for BF2 when there was no tuts apart from the 2 tuts EA/DICE made that went into hardly any detail apart from the very basics, I and the other mappers/modders around back then had to basically work everything out for ourself, hence why the learning curve back then was much, much steeper and hardly any maps where getting made. Coding is really a matter of trial and error for the most part, you open a file with notepad, change a few numbers, see what happens, thou ye it gets more complicated than that but that is most of the basic coding. Modelling, you need to learn how to model which is not easy.

Originally Posted by M.Warren

I am also aware that Project Reality is based upon volunteer work. But because it's volunteer work, does this mean that it must be subjected to lower standards or a generally laxxed approach on certain important topics?

When your making a mod that is in the top 3 of MOTY you can then come back to me and tell me what low standards are.

Originally Posted by M.Warren

As far as I am concerned, I feel volunteers should perform equal to or better than a paid organization. Reason being is that we put our heart, our time and our effort into something we enjoy. We do what we can to make ends meet, but hopefully our dilligence and devotion will succeed over our loss of expertise and resources. I have a job aswell and I get paid for it, and to be honest if it wasn't for the money I could care less. I'd rather be retired.

we do put our harts, our time and our souls into it, that is not to mean that something may happen in some peoples lives, work or personal that makes them spend less time working on the mod or stop altogether. Like you said, you only work at your job for the money, we can't keep devs working on PR for money, we can't have that leash that keeps them working every day of the week, they work when they want to and that is it, pressure a guy to much and he will leave as he wants to do this for enjoyment, not to be nagged over and over for why his model is not done yet. We do set deadlines and most of the time we meet them, just so many things can happen that often mean that you can't and that is the way it is, we can't just go out and hire a guy to do more work if that area is missing since we have no money to hire a guy with, we only get team members from them wanting to work, like you, you dont want to work for PR due to your "time" that we are meant to have so much of for some reason according to you and you can't even be asked to even attempting coding or anything, its not that hard. I dunno what makes you think there is so much difference between our time and yours.

Originally Posted by M.Warren

The same goes for almost any other human being. Think about it. If you pull up to a McDonalds drive-thru and you just paid for a BigMac you think you're going to get Napoleonic era wine and Foie Gras? Hell no. I consider Project Reality that quiet self-owned deli around the cornor that serves up the best damn Italian hero you've ever known.

and they give you that for free? wow, tell me where this place is now I think I'll dine there every day!

Originally Posted by M.Warren

While Developers are thinking of a new approach of gameplay, the Community is under the boot screaming to get your foot off of our heads. Then, finally at the end of the 3-4 month wait for a new update; the foot finally stops dragging us through the mud. Or atleast hopefully stopped being dragged through the mud. Then people wonder why we're frustrated sometimes.

again, I would like to see you guys release as much as we do in the release cycles we do, you have obviously no idea how much work is required to do this stuff, god knows how many man hrs goes into each release. Really, we are at this time by far the top mod for short release cycles, find me anouther BF2 mod that has release cycles under 3 months, you wont, most take a year to get there next release out the door, that is 4x as long as us ffs!




if you are going to question how much effort and time we put into PR you can just go f*ck yourself as you have absolutely no idea what it takes to make a mod like PR. Really, dont come back saying this shit until you have made something worth while yourself!