Project Reality v0.6 to v0.75 constructive criticism.

[[R-DEV]fuzzhead]

Originally Posted by M.Warren

1. Removal of Heavy AT missle tone and increasing target aquisition speed.
<Note: Yay for one-shotting APC's without a chance. Looks like it's just as overpowered as in v0.6. But then again, atleast in v0.6 you had a chance to get out of the way as you can hear the warning tone.>

Of course this is crappy to gameplay right now, anyone who has tried to run an APC squad on Jabal, Qwai, 7gates, etc knows it. But I dont think giving back the missle tone is the solution. There is several ways you could go to making the H-AT perform more realistically. I think bringing the settle time back to v0.7 levels would probably help alot. Or a new way of using the HAT altogether, where you have to 'deploy' it on the ground each time you want to use it, thus a long prep time. Without question you'll see H-AT changed signifigantly in v0.8 cause right now its too powerful of a weapon on most maps. When servers have to make rules banning a weapons use versus players, you KNOW its over powered

2. Removal of Officer kit flashbangs.
<Note: Simply a handy tool to have. Matter of fact it'd be more valuable now than before seeing grenades are nearly useless.>

Not realistic to be used by every infantry squad (and if given to the officers, EVERY infantry squad would have these and their use would be high). I believe it also conflicts with the shaders of PR.exe but I could be wrong.

3. Reduction in the effectiveness of fragmentation grenades.
<Note: Welcome to v0.75, that big baseball sized green thing in your hand no longer kills people. However now you can place it in the enemies mail box and blow up the box of cookies thier mother sent to them for psychological warfare.>

I think the grenades are much better now. When you throw a grenade in a bunker, and there are 2-3 guys in that bunker, you will probably kill at least 2 of them. But you MUST go in and clear the bunker out to be sure they are all dead. IRL grenades are not the perfect killers, the fragments are quite random. Before, you could throw a grenade in a bunker and you would never have to clear it because you would know the instant it goes off that all the bad guys are dead, which is unrealistic. I do believe that the RADIUS of the grenade should be increase a bit (10 meters or so) but I dont think it should get anymore lethal. If at all possible I believe the 'suppression' effect should last much longer with grenades, as a grenade going off close to you is going to give you complete hearing loss, loss of consciousness, bleeding from the eyes/nose/ears/mouth, but killing you outright every single time is just begging for them to be spammed to all high hell, which was a MAJOR problem in v0.6.

4. Removal of BF2 artillery for JDAM.

Disagree STRONGLY with bringing back vbf2 artillery, I think it was not realistic, did NOT support teamwork, and was just plain annoying. I think a much better route would be player controlled mortars, more changes with the bombs dropped by jets, and changes to the JDAM to increase its lethality.

5. Removal of quality maps.

Its true PR has a short list of maps right now and we need more quality ones. However I dont think bringing back the old maps is the answer, people have fond memories of these maps but I think that if we did bring them back the gameplay flaws in them would quickly become apparent. So instead of looking to the past for the answer, I think we should look to all the future potential, there are literally DOZENS of maps under developement by devs and community members right now, all in different stages of completion. They are all designed specifically for v0.7 gameplay and are being made with realism in mind, so I think the next few versions of PR are going to be very exciting as far as interesting places to fight.

6. Removal of the Crewman wrench.

Dont agree with bringing the crewman wrench back. The only valid point I can see is having a limited number of players on a team and needing an extra engineer on a tank squad takes away from boots on the ground. However I think the engineer situation should be changed, there is a number of solutions that could be made such as adding a 4th position on tanks so the engineer has a place to button down when the lead starts coming in.

7. Removal of Engineer repair trucks.

Agree that they should make a return, but in a different capacity than in v0.6, which IMO was a bit too spammy and gamey (for example, parking next to 2 engineer trucks and repairing, while 2 engineers repairing the tank from behind, means the tank is 'invincible' and can repair damage faster than it can recieve, much like vbf2 and parking next to a couple supply crates). Also things like driving beside the tank and getting repairs "on the move" made these trucks prety arcade like in nature, even vanilla didnt have this kind of roadside service!). Possible solution could be engineer trucks "deploying" a repair station, similar to the way we deploy ammo crates right now from jeeps. The engineer truck can only deploy 1 repair station at a time, to get another one they have to go to bunkers/firebase/commandpost, just like the jeeps and their ammo crates. The repair station repairs any vehicle nearby at a slow rate, but has a limited amount of repair "ammo", and it can be destroyed very easily by any weapon, just like ammo crates.

8. Removal of kit requests from supply crates.

This was a change to increase the importance of the (already numerous) kit limit request points. Saturating the whole map with kit limit request points means players dont give a crap about defending the ones that they got, cause there are supply crates dotted everywhere on the map. Also another big problem is being able to request off of enemy supply crates, further increasing the avaliability. I dont think supply crates should be kit request points when every supply truck can drop them, which really lessons the importance of the bunkers/firebases and rallypoints.

9. Removal of kit requests from APC's

Actually you can request all kits from APCs besides "specialized" kits which are: HAT, AA, specops and sniper. The only one that is really an issue then is HAT, because it may be realistic to store these in the back of an APC. However I think the problem right now that APCs are not being used properly as a mechanized infantry transport is mainly for OTHER reasons, not because they cant request snipers or specops on them... Those other reasons are quite complex and for a different topic altogether.

10. Removal of the "Dizzy" near death experience as seen in the v0.6 patch.

I think the current one is fine, as long as it SEVERELY restricts your ability to shoot back at the enemy.



Anyways thanks the criticism. I think PR v0.7- PR v0.75 has its faults but also I think that were well aware of the faults and actively making changes to correct the faults. Hopefully egg gets more time and can have a closer eye on what were doing as well as put his magic into new features

Feel free to post any more discussion on this as its welcomed but keep it civil. I disagree with Wolfe in that I really think the dev team is coming together and coming up with solutions to problems in a good way now. For a while it was prety rough but now things are starting to get back on track!

[M.Warren]

I must say though. One of my greatest issues here is that a forum limits the possibilities of explanation and suggestive brainstorming a verbal conversation may have. I wish there would be a time where we could speak to the developers once again in an in depth level and elaborate. Possibly on a private teamspeak server or a ventrilo server rather than X-Fire. More people have Ventrilo and Teamspeak in my opinion anyways.

But I agree with Fuzzhead and the other players that uniformly agree that Heavy Anti-Tank is overpowered. However at this point it's rather clear that the issue with the "Warning Tone" will never, ever be implemented again as it's firmly understood that it's application is unrealistic. So now it simply comes down to tweaking the kit itself and limiting it to a certain degree.

I had spent about 7 hours thinking on ways to alter the Heavy Anti-Tank in a rather logical and realistic manner, rather than blurting out possibilities on impulse. It's simply too complex to explain it entirely, maybe the developers one day will truely allow us to congregate on a public ventrilo or teamspeak server... Then again, I'm not sure if the last time it was hosted on X-fire was a flop either.

[101 bassdrive]

and this is nothing? I thought thats pretty sweet what mescaldrav had put together
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...uggestion.html
warren, you want the DEVs to hook you up on TS to brainstorm and listen to your thoughts although you havent coded or contributed anything for the mod? I mean cmon... Im glad we got this platform to give feedback and be heared when we think somethings problematic. we cant and shouldnt expect any more if we dont come up with a solution ourselfs.
sit back and enjoy the ride like the rest of us

[[R-DEV]Drav]

Ye speaking of which something hopefully might be happening with that in the near future.....

[gclark03]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead

When servers have to make rules banning a weapons use versus players, you KNOW its over powered

In the Middle Ages, a pope tried to ban crossbows because of their lethality and the ability for an uneducated (and barely trained) peasant to kill knights with years of experience. Would you call crossbows OP today? I bring this up because the HAT does not need to change, but its targets and the game around it are sure to change in the coming months and years.

Therein lies the answer: in order to rationalize the massive power of the HAT kit, don't screw with the kit, change its effects on the targets - such as disabling APCs and tanks.

If we don't want to go down that road, of course, we can simply remove HAT on maps without tanks, but I had assumed that it had already been considered.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Its easy ammo which is at fault more then the HAT kit but that cant be fixed as easily

[gclark03]

Most times, the HAT dies before anyone can supply him ammo, or even before he can get back to the ammo crate that's waiting for him.

[Waaah_Wah]

Originally Posted by gclark03

In the Middle Ages, a pope tried to ban crossbows because of their lethality and the ability for an uneducated (and barely trained) peasant to kill knights with years of experience.

AFAIK, it wasnt banned, they were just not allowed to use it against other Christians coz it looks like a cross or something

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by gclark03

In the Middle Ages, a pope tried to ban crossbows because of their lethality and the ability for an uneducated (and barely trained) peasant to kill knights with years of experience. Would you call crossbows OP today? I bring this up because the HAT does not need to change, but its targets and the game around it are sure to change in the coming months and years.

What history books are you reading? They tried to get it banned because all the knights got pissed with all the peasant's prone spamming!

Should have banned those stupid peasants from the server!

[gclark03]

All the Pope had to do was add deviation.