Give the AA kit a rifle with optics

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I think not unless HAT also gets optics. Im not certain of the reasoning exactly but its not really a squad level weapon in the game like the LAT is.
Your primary focus for this kit should be making best use of the main weapon, you cant even tell if there is an enemy aircraft in the distance unless you are using the manpad zoomed

[random pants]

I think you're missing my point. What Ive been saying is that the AA kit needs optics because of the style it should be played in. An AT doesn't need optics because he'll usually be with a squad that is there to support him and give him ammo. AA is not played this way because of the way you have to hunt aircraft. If you've got AA and you're running around with your squad killing guys with your 6 mags of ammo (don't know why they have 6 and AT has 2...) then you're flat out playing the kit wrong.

The AA kit has very poor defense when he is posting up for aircraft, and gets picked off very easy. I'd roll with 2 mags HAPPILY if he just had a weapon that could engage at longer ranges.

[Waaah_Wah]

Originally Posted by random pants

No, because this takes too many soldiers out of the main fight. I firmly believe that effective AA is a lone-wolf camping style. Using this tactic I devastate servers. Scores like 17 and 0 and 21 and 0 I get all the time on Zatar wetlands camping in the hills near the carrier with an ammo dump.

The times I die are when people catch on and start to move up. It's very hard to defend yourself with iron-sights, and I don't think that in real life people with that kind of role would be denied a medium range scope on their weapons.

IRL you dont have lone soldiers sitting on hills with AA weapons. Get a rifleman to go with you if you want a scope. And dont tell me that your one of these nice fellas that take a vodnik, drive where they wanna go, drop the ammo crate and dump the car. Coz thats really, really annoying

[ostupidman]

I think you are defeating yourself with your own argument for random. You talk about sitting up on with an ammo resupply and picking off choppers and planes. That right there shows that your don't understand the concept of the AA soldier. His job is to provide close AA support for his squad, not sit on a hill somewhere. While you may get more kills sitting on a hill that is not how the kit is meant to be utilized. Also I believe the reasoning behind the mag count of 6 for the AA gunner and only 2 for the HAT is to represent the difference in weight between anti-air and anti-tank missles. Aircraft simply cannot be as heavily armored as tanks and APC therefore the warhead needed to take them down is not at large or as heavy.

[random pants]

Close squad support for AA???? Are you kidding me? When's the last time you ever heard your SL say 30 seconds before the game starts "Ok, we're gonna need someone to grab AA for close squad support...."

And that's not the only way everyone plays the kit(on a hill), it's just a good way to play it. It's about putting yourself in the best position to destroy as much aircraft as possible.



Anyways, I'd like a DEV to come in here and say "it's a possibility", or "ain't gonna happen."

[ostupidman]

The last time oh I don't know....maybe last NIGHT. On Qwai, where the squad lead wanted CLOSE AA SUPPORT against little birds. That's the job of an infantry AA soldier. He's not a mobile armored AA platform mean to deal solely with aircraft. The AA infantryman is a dual purpose soldier, both with his anti-air capabilities and ability to aid in fire support with his standard infantry rifle. You may kill more choppers while your out camping somewhere waiting for them to fly over but what you are not doing is moving with your team providing them air cover, fire support, and more bodies to take objectives. Just as a HAT soldier should not be off by himself trying to kill armor, neither should an AA soldier. Remember also that this is a game which strives to promote realistic use of equipment and tactics. That does not include lone AA soldiers.

[billdan]

I've never had to carry a MANPADs (plus extra rockets+body armor+rifle+rifle ammoo) before, but

if anything, i would imagine that the AA soldier carried a carbine (i.e. single/3-burst M4) with or without optics and only 4-5 mags for the rifle

[PFunk]

Its irrelevant to talk about game balance if we're accepting the convention of a lone wolf class, of whatever brand. Even snipers aren't lone wolfers, supposedly.

Really I think that any class ought to have the opportunity to have an optic. I mean don't some soldiers attach their own anyway? And the only real argument against letting some of the support classes have optics is the idea of organically restricting the ability of the soldier to engage long range targets thus making him more focused on his assigned primary purpose (read something similar in intent written talking about how they gave SLs submachine guns in WW2 so that they wouldn't be able to effectively get caught up in the longer range suppression firing and thus focus on directing the rest of the squad). And really if there is enough of a need for limiting fire through that kind of idea then let the SLs themselves in game who ask for the kits say "I want you to take the ironsights cause I don't want you firing at anybody other than those fucking jets".

Sights or no sights ought to be a mostly personal choice or one subjective based on the situation (maybe you want your SAW to have an optic cause on this map you are gonna have only long range firefights or you're defending a plateau and want to suppress from a longer distance). As long as there's a balance to make ironsights and optics competitive in different situations with each choice given an appropriate drawback then its all good, I figure.

[random pants]

Ugh, now you're talking about the broader spectrum of optics/no optics. I skewed a little when I talked about lone-wolfing, which is not it's only roll, just one I do often with great success.

All I'm trying to say in this thread is that I think the AA kit is the odd-man-out in the distribution of optic and iron-sighted rifles.

[Gunwing]

Originally Posted by random pants

Ugh, now you're talking about the broader spectrum of optics/no optics. I skewed a little when I talked about lone-wolfing, which is not it's only roll, just one I do often with great success.

All I'm trying to say in this thread is that I think the AA kit is the odd-man-out in the distribution of optic and iron-sighted rifles.

IMHO if lone Wolfing is an issue lets do it this way:

AA with assault rifle/optics, less ammo for the weapon. IE if it's an isnurgent 4 mags standard? slash it down to two mags, that way he has less room to blaze and will need to stay with the squad for more ammo for his rifle.

Got a USMC AA kit? 8 mags standard? Slash it down to 4 mags, RA (Royal Army for you non British military folks) AA kit? 8 mags standard? Agian slash it by half the less ammo you have the closer you are to your squad mates, and the more attached you need to be to get to the front line.

IMHO AA troops need to stick with the squad and protect them with their AA weapons from low flying jets, and choppers just like in real life. If you watch videos of the Soviet Afgahnistan conflict more often then not the Aribs shooting the stingers, and the Russians shooting the SA-7s are not only at a high point for clear shots, but also in the thick of the fighting with the troops, and keeping the choppers off their back.