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Old 04-29-2008, 09:13 PM   #161
00SoldierofFortune00

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xgayox View Post
Go read the Arma 1.12 on TG is awesome thread in the off topic section please.
I did, but last time I checked, people are here to play PR, not ArmA.

Quote:
Nope because there is a big difference. This mod isnt done yet. Its not that simple at all.
This engine also wasn't made to be ArmA or "ultra-realistic."


[Quote]Again, BALANCE.[Quote]

It obviously wouldn't be balanced though if firebases were the only spawn and one CO was an idiot and the other knows what he is doing and building like crazy.


Quote:
Yeah, you said a medic needs a scoped gun, i said IF HE GETS ONE he will become the #1 lonewolf kit....

People are argreeing with me about the medic and it is even "realistic" for the realistic crowd, so, so much for your "torn apart" comment.

And yea, if you believe lonewolves are successful in this game, you maybe playing the wrong game. This is not VBF2. A medic is not going to run down the street and rambo a bunch of guys just because he gets a scope and healing abilities.



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Theres nothing there to address man, thats the idea of the whole mod. The team that utilizes teamwork is rewarded.
Don't skirt the question. You know just as well as I do that not every team has a CO or a competent one. It isn't rewarding the team using more teamwork, it is rewarding the team that was lucky enough to get a veteran on their side. Plain and simple.



Quote:
How often does this happen? Especially with the lack of commanders right?
It happens plenty when there are good commanders on a team's side and I would predict the same players complaining now about RPs, coming back to complain about the waves of men spawning in and running at them from firebases. They would be the team that hadn't had the luxury of getting a good CO.


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They can charge from anywhere they want. But if they are doing it from main at least i wont have to worry about that same squad coming back in 30 seconds. People shouldnt need incentive to stay with the SL man. Thats the whole goal of the game. I enjoy working with my squad/team because its a rewarding experience and much more fun. I think i can safely say that for alot of other people in this community, as that was one of the biggest points being advertised with this mod.
If it was your squad respawning at main, I am sure you would look at it differnetly, especially considering that the snipers and marksmen would be taking your team out first and ruling the battlefield because they would take everyone out from afar instead of moving in.

And people do need incentive to stay with their SL just like people need incentive to work (their paycheck). Of course you try to find a job you like (like a SL), but if it doesn't come with a spawn close to the front, what is the point than?



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Oh my god....
Like I said, don't pick and choose. Once a firebase/bunker is up, it is no different than a RP.


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MAKE THEM BE MEDIC OR KICK THEM. PRETTY SIMPLE.
Because you can force anyone you want to go a class they don't want to be? Just because they are medic does not mean they are going to be good medics either. If they are used to attacking and firefights, they are still going to do that and neglect medicing. I have seen it before, so trust me.

"Push the Envelope, Watch It Bend"

Tool ~ Lateralus
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:40 PM   #162
[T]Terranova7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00SoldierofFortune00 View Post
How would spawning at firebases stop the "tug-of-war" effect? The whole point of this game is the tug-of-war effect. 1 side attacks, moves in, other side counterattacks, etc. Firebases are placed 100M away just like RPs and are harder to destroy. They wouldn't do anything about that.
Firebases can can be placed 100 meters away from a CP, but is this likely? Building a firebase that close isn't tactically sound. A team is likely to be caught trying to do that be their opponents long before they even request a build order. Even now, on average firebases are constructed 200 meters and above from objectives, rally points are generally set within the 100 - 200 meter range.

And I think the range on firebases is likely to increase given the fact that players will value them much more than they do so now.






Quote:
Both RPs and Firebases are placed 100M away from the flag. How would it stop the 30-60 second later attacks? And spawning at the main is totally unrealistic because if a force has moved into an area, they have already set up a forward operating base, hence Firebases/Bunkers. RPs are for individual squads to use to patrol, flannk, not get spawn camped.
Same as above. If a "patrol" or flanking squad is defeated, the next unit should be deploying from a further out "FOB" (Firebase). Not returning from a pile of bags to continue their same operation in the next 30 seconds.


Quote:
PR is not like that now though. Firebases allow your team a forward operating position. Bunkers allow your team to set up a defense. Rally Points allow your squads to operate independently if they want to and don't require a CO to set up and are not easy to find, hence harder to spawn camp.
But PR is like that. There is still very little tactical/strategic depth involved. It's always move here, set up a rally point, and attack, rinse and repeat. It's 3 simple steps to being good in this game. Sure you probably get all fancy and have your fireteams and advanced flanking maneuvers with your ultra specialized kit loadout, but truth is doing all that simply wastes time. Because if you're wasting 2 minutes planning out your attack/defense, you could spend those two minutes causing absolute chaos simply because you can respawn and do it all again in the next 30 to 60 seconds. I mean you said it yourself, everyone fails if they just sit around, the game's all about moving and killing.


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You don't have to be right next to it to camp it. I was playing in the PR Tournament and camped the other teams firebase from a rooftop and got somewhere around 15 kills and most didn't even notice or were taken out before they had a chance to look for me. Eventually, someone caught on, but the damage had been done and that was just with me. Think what a squad of people with scopes, a marksmen, a sniper, or a camping squad could do.
Well it's definitely going to be a team's responsibility to build their firebases in reasonable spots. But I'm sure other things can be done to help reduce spawn camping. Possibly keep rally points but have them limited to a 50 to 100 meter range of the firebase (and have it so that the whole team can spawn on the surrounding rallies). Another idea might be to build bunkers around firebases, simply for cover and not really as a spawn device.


Quote:
You missed the point. BFV had the spawn wave system from either flags or buildable shovel things. It was a fragfest. Having a noticable spawn right next to the flag or on it (firebases or bunkers) would end up turning into charging and fragging fests over holding the firebases and less about taking the flag.
It's sort of like that now though. I'm hoping the removal or limiting of rally points would tone that down.


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Old 04-29-2008, 10:21 PM   #163
00SoldierofFortune00

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Quote:
Originally Posted by [T]Terranova7 View Post
Firebases can can be placed 100 meters away from a CP, but is this likely? Building a firebase that close isn't tactically sound. A team is likely to be caught trying to do that be their opponents long before they even request a build order. Even now, on average firebases are constructed 200 meters and above from objectives, rally points are generally set within the 100 - 200 meter range.
No, most firebases are constructed close to flag areas because that is where the most cover is. Take EJOD for example. Placing it in the desert is suicide. Placing it 100M south or East or West City is the best bet.

And I think the range on firebases is likely to increase given the fact that players will value them much more than they do so now.[/Quote]

Then you have the problem of not being able to build one at all because the flags are so close together on maps like EJOD or Bi Ming for example. This is the same problem that happened with RPs in Muttrah 0.5.





Quote:
Same as above. If a "patrol" or flanking squad is defeated, the next unit should be deploying from a further out "FOB" (Firebase). Not returning from a pile of bags to continue their same operation in the next 30 seconds.
Like I said though, FBs can be placed within 100M just like RPs and how is respawning at a pile of sandbags any different than spawning at a pile of gear?




Quote:
But PR is like that. There is still very little tactical/strategic depth involved. It's always move here, set up a rally point, and attack, rinse and repeat. It's 3 simple steps to being good in this game. Sure you probably get all fancy and have your fireteams and advanced flanking maneuvers with your ultra specialized kit loadout, but truth is doing all that simply wastes time. Because if you're wasting 2 minutes planning out your attack/defense, you could spend those two minutes causing absolute chaos simply because you can respawn and do it all again in the next 30 to 60 seconds. I mean you said it yourself, everyone fails if they just sit around, the game's all about moving and killing.
Because this mod was based off the BF2 engine, which involves speed and quick tactics. You can't take BF2 out of PR because this mod is based off that game. But doing tactics in this game like flanking, squads, sometimes even fireteams, is way more than a lot of other games have like CSS, TF2, COD4, etc.




Quote:
Well it's definitely going to be a team's responsibility to build their firebases in reasonable spots. But I'm sure other things can be done to help reduce spawn camping. Possibly keep rally points but have them limited to a 50 to 100 meter range of the firebase (and have it so that the whole team can spawn on the surrounding rallies). Another idea might be to build bunkers around firebases, simply for cover and not really as a spawn device.

Then you have the issue of having enough room on smaller maps. Not every map is huge like Kashan. RPs, Bunkers, and Firebases are fine as they are now. It is the responsibility of the other team to suppress those spots and deal with the infantry there if they want to control those areas or flag. If they wine about it, that tells me they probably aren't doing their job.

Quote:
It's sort of like that now though. I'm hoping the removal or limiting of rally points would tone that down.
That would be a complete regression back to what BF2 was. Instead of spawning on flags, you would spawn on firebases which are pretty noticable and camping would return.


Just remember that RPs were made as an alternative to the SL spawn and were made so that camping wouldn't be possible ingame.

"Push the Envelope, Watch It Bend"

Tool ~ Lateralus
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:47 AM   #164
Taliban-IED
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Default Re: care more about your life

I dont like the idea.
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:50 AM   #165
MonkeySoldier

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Default Re: care more about your life

Necro? Taliban IED, this topic is dead.
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