Changes to the injury/death system

[Pariel]

Just so you know guys, you both pretty much appear to be targeting each other, rather than having a useful conversation(which ended after each of your first posts, if it got that far).

Personally, I suggest sticking tot he old system; I think it's one of the few parts of the game that has never exhibited balance issues, it accurately simulates a medic's actual role (even if the portable defibrillator is silly). I think it's ridiculous to say that we (by which I mean the devs) need to come up with new equipment, animations, and a new system just to make the game more complicated, which will add little to nothing to gameplay.

[gclark03]

Complexity != Reality.

It kills me to dig up such an ancient adage, but why fix what ain't broke?

[$kelet0r]

Originally Posted by gclark03

Complexity != Reality.

It kills me to dig up such an ancient adage, but why fix what ain't broke?

By that argument BF2 isn't broken - the whole point of PRM is to push the barrier on what can be fixed given the limits available

Originally Posted by Pariel

I think it's ridiculous to say that we (by which I mean the devs) need to come up with new equipment, animations, and a new system just to make the game more complicated, which will add little to nothing to gameplay.

New systems replacing old have been implemented in every release since 0.2 - you use the word complications like an insult, I would use the word depth because I would contend that anything that makes the gameplay more realistic would only enhance the gameplay. Personally I think settling for the current rather than wanting more is 'ridiculous'

[gclark03]

Do you complain about e-mail because it doesn't have the same 'depth' as walking your mail there yourself? Like e-mail, the defibrillator is a practical, simple device, and making it harder by having yourself triage the patient, applying a tourniquet, dragging him to a medevac helo, flying 300 miles to a medical facility, patching him up and flying all the way back in-game won't make anything more fun to play - just more complex, and even harder on the newbies.

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by gclark03

Do you complain about e-mail because it doesn't have the same 'depth' as walking your mail there yourself? Like e-mail, the defibrillator is a practical, simple device, and making it harder by having yourself triage the patient, applying a tourniquet, dragging him to a medevac helo, flying 300 miles to a medical facility, patching him up and flying all the way back in-game won't make anything more fun to play - just more complex, and even harder on the newbies.

If we had more than 64 players per server this would work fine

I'd enjoy a game with the features that you describe...but I'm a medic fanboy

[Pariel]

Originally Posted by gclark03

Complexity != Reality.

It kills me to dig up such an ancient adage, but why fix what ain't broke?

Agreed on both counts; let me rephrase myself:

It would make the system overly complex.

If you want to spend time slogging to medical stations to get fixed up, join the military. This game is first and foremost about gaming, second about realism.

Originally Posted by $kelet0r

New systems replacing old have been implemented in every release since 0.2 - you use the word complications like an insult, I would use the word depth because I would contend that anything that makes the gameplay more realistic would only enhance the gameplay. Personally I think settling for the current rather than wanting more is 'ridiculous'

See above. Feel free to disagree with me.

But step back from your point of view for a second, and answer these questions:
-What would this require in terms of actual work to implement, and what would be the actual results on gameplay?
-Do you really think this would make the game more dynamic and interesting? I hate nothing more than walking in video games, but hey, if that's your thing, well, OK.

*EDIT* Apparently I didn't take the time to read gclark03's last post. Well, that's what you get for rushing; a whole wasted post.

[gclark03]

It wasn't a wasted post, you made some very good points.

Remember that there's an entire panel of military advisers helping out with this mod. If there were a viable solution, it would be in place already.

[BloodBane611]

Do you complain about e-mail because it doesn't have the same 'depth' as walking your mail there yourself?

lol mate this was a good one. Not quite the same, but I do agree.


Personally, I will say that I am no big fan of the current revive system. But, in its defense, it does reasonably represent what happens on the battlefield. A medic gets to you in time, you're going to be able to get back in the fight. If you're bleeding out and the medic doesn't make it to you in time, you have to be returned to a medical facility. In certain circumstances, there's nothing a medic is going to do that will bring you back. The GREAT majority of the time you are not being revived. Therefore the person who is represented by the loss of 1 ticket for your life is being medevaced, or there are several representatives from your countries government knocking on someone's door.

If you want to CREATE a new system, feel free. But the current one is as reasonable a balance of realism and gameplay as we are going to get with this engine.


Also, your idea that medics kills should be punished is just totally naive. If a medic runs out in the street to treat an insurgent, you better bet those marines/soldiers are going to put a cap in his butt, face, and several areas in between. The days where medics were safe left a long time ago.


The reason your idea doesn't fit into BF2 is not realism. It's logistics and gameplay. Very few people are going to want to run around as an unarmed class with no real advantages. Even the current armed medic class is underplayed, and with your desired nerfing they would die a burning, agonizing death. Logistically, there simply are not enough people to man enough vehicles in the right locations to transport/heal enough people.

Overall it would hurt gameplay, with little addition to realism. Instead of creating more tactical gameplay, it would simply make it more complicated.

[[T]MLPatriot]

I'd love to see the removal of the shock paddles but that every map would have a Medical helicopter or truck along with a medical/hospital bunker. The wounded soldier would be evacuated and transported to the medical bunker and be healed. The truck could only be driven by medics. it could be a commander asset or base type bunker. this would increase teamwork. I also think that it wouldnt go against any hardcoding.

[gclark03]

All this looks good on paper, but it's horrendously difficult to put it into practice. If it can't be done effectively on a public server full of vBF2 noobs, it shouldn't be implemented at all.