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Old 01-25-2006, 06:25 AM   #21
Bossgator
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I posted these insights in another thread, but seems more appropriate here

As seen by the comments and suggestions, it is obvious changes are in order for the jets and helos. The idea of individual kits for each is a good idea, as well as limiting the number of kits to the number of aircraft in the map. In reality, only pilots fly anyways, so why should other "kits" be able to? Like wise, why should a jet kit be able to drive a tank? Sure a buggy, or Hummer, but not any heavy armour.

Though the "waiting" for a seat is a major issue, I feel the real one is with how the jets operate in the first place, particularly the missles. My job when I was in the US Navy was as a technition on a flight simulator for the F-4 and F-14 at NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach, VA. It was an "ACM", Air Combat Manuvering simulator. It was "dogfight" training.

Since we had to know how to fly in order to do pre and post training checks, I can tell you from first hand experience how the Sidewinder, Sparrow, and Phoenix missles behave. I assure you, its nothing like the way BF2 is!!!

Bottom line, BF2 is a complete joke when it comes to using the missles. Obviously there are those that fly in BF2 that have learned how to best use the craft as they are designed in the game, but they are not flying in "reality".

In reality, if you get from say 4-7 oclock on a bogey, and you get a "lock" with a Sidewinder inside of say 5 miles, chances are extremely good your gonna splash 'em. It takes a very good pilot that knows what they are doing to avoid getting hit by a heat-seeking missle. This business of having to fire all your missles is ridiculous. So long as you maintain position, one, maybe two is all you will need for a kill, and they do not veer off all on their own either.

Now, with the radar-guided ones like the Sparrow and Phoenix, its a different ballgame entirely. These types maintain lock by "wire", in that you need to maintain your nose in the direction of the target till almost the time of impact. Much more difficult than the Sidewinder. Range for the Phoenix is up to 120 miles, though the Sparrow is somewhere around half that if I remember correctly. These missles can lock and track bogeys that are out of sight, and since the distance is far greater, actually keeping your nose on the target is not that hard. As a result of how they track, the difficulty is in firing in such a way as to reduce the bogeys ability to avoid impact. Definately an artform!

For BF2, the Sidewinder is the more appropriate type missle, due to the really small air arena. In reality, you can fire them at very short range and break away if you want, because they track the heat signature.

How can the physics be "tweeked" to more accurately reflect reality, I dont know, seeing I'm no coder, but it definately is needed. And dont get me started on the guns! Just let me say that those guns in reality are far more damaging than what BF2 has them! If your good enough to strafe a bogey with your guns, you will get the kill! These planes just cant take the kind of damage they do in BF2. The only plane I know of that can is the Warthog.

One other aspect that has bothered me is the after burners. In reality, you can run full throttle for as long as you have fuel. Jet turbines will not "overheat" like they do in BF2. In fact, turbines are actually "governed", meaning they wont run up to their full power potential. The air frames just couldnt handle the stress. Which also leads me to stress, or more specifically, g forces. Reality would dictate that "pulling g's" should be implemented, along with "gray out". I think we all agree there is no way in hell a pilot can be flying at mach one, and suddenly make a hard pull turn without going in to gray out! The laws of physics just wont allow it. Again, how to incorporate that I dont know.

Thats my 2 cents!
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:04 PM   #22
Zepheris Casull

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it might be possible to add the redding and black out effect, i mean technically we have thoose bloody frames that appears when we take wounds, a modified version of that perhaps?? or modified flashbang effect??

if they can implement that and with the improved cockpit view i mentioned in the other thread, then i would be one happy flight jockey wannabe.

hmm funny though, i thought linebacker was deemed ineffective at engaging fighter jets due to it's poor fire rate in real life. but i agree that if it did managed to score a hit on a jet, that jet would be in one serious world of hurt.

oh, and if we're gonna tweak the vulcan on the US planes closer to the real one, then can the phalanx get the same treatment??? <(^o^)>
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Old 01-28-2006, 07:52 PM   #23
Rozjebca
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The worst thing is when airplane hunting single soliders, it meake me sick. heli is ok when do this, but for example f18 it is so stupid. Most stupid in may opinion is when i get hit by 4x250Kg bombs!!
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:03 PM   #24
BrokenArrow
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It's annoying when they hunt anything. Airplanes should stay really high up (except tank-hunters) and deal with eachother, they have fun while the ground pounders have fun as well.

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Old 01-28-2006, 11:02 PM   #25
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossgator
I posted these insights in another thread, but seems more appropriate here

As seen by the comments and suggestions, it is obvious changes are in order for the jets and helos. The idea of individual kits for each is a good idea, as well as limiting the number of kits to the number of aircraft in the map. In reality, only pilots fly anyways, so why should other "kits" be able to? Like wise, why should a jet kit be able to drive a tank? Sure a buggy, or Hummer, but not any heavy armour.

Though the "waiting" for a seat is a major issue, I feel the real one is with how the jets operate in the first place, particularly the missles. My job when I was in the US Navy was as a technition on a flight simulator for the F-4 and F-14 at NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach, VA. It was an "ACM", Air Combat Manuvering simulator. It was "dogfight" training.

Since we had to know how to fly in order to do pre and post training checks, I can tell you from first hand experience how the Sidewinder, Sparrow, and Phoenix missles behave. I assure you, its nothing like the way BF2 is!!!

Bottom line, BF2 is a complete joke when it comes to using the missles. Obviously there are those that fly in BF2 that have learned how to best use the craft as they are designed in the game, but they are not flying in "reality".

In reality, if you get from say 4-7 oclock on a bogey, and you get a "lock" with a Sidewinder inside of say 5 miles, chances are extremely good your gonna splash 'em. It takes a very good pilot that knows what they are doing to avoid getting hit by a heat-seeking missle. This business of having to fire all your missles is ridiculous. So long as you maintain position, one, maybe two is all you will need for a kill, and they do not veer off all on their own either.

Now, with the radar-guided ones like the Sparrow and Phoenix, its a different ballgame entirely. These types maintain lock by "wire", in that you need to maintain your nose in the direction of the target till almost the time of impact. Much more difficult than the Sidewinder. Range for the Phoenix is up to 120 miles, though the Sparrow is somewhere around half that if I remember correctly. These missles can lock and track bogeys that are out of sight, and since the distance is far greater, actually keeping your nose on the target is not that hard. As a result of how they track, the difficulty is in firing in such a way as to reduce the bogeys ability to avoid impact. Definately an artform!

For BF2, the Sidewinder is the more appropriate type missle, due to the really small air arena. In reality, you can fire them at very short range and break away if you want, because they track the heat signature.

How can the physics be "tweeked" to more accurately reflect reality, I dont know, seeing I'm no coder, but it definately is needed. And dont get me started on the guns! Just let me say that those guns in reality are far more damaging than what BF2 has them! If your good enough to strafe a bogey with your guns, you will get the kill! These planes just cant take the kind of damage they do in BF2. The only plane I know of that can is the Warthog.

One other aspect that has bothered me is the after burners. In reality, you can run full throttle for as long as you have fuel. Jet turbines will not "overheat" like they do in BF2. In fact, turbines are actually "governed", meaning they wont run up to their full power potential. The air frames just couldnt handle the stress. Which also leads me to stress, or more specifically, g forces. Reality would dictate that "pulling g's" should be implemented, along with "gray out". I think we all agree there is no way in hell a pilot can be flying at mach one, and suddenly make a hard pull turn without going in to gray out! The laws of physics just wont allow it. Again, how to incorporate that I dont know.

Thats my 2 cents!
Nice comments, i agree with everything above

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Old 01-29-2006, 09:22 AM   #26
Hitperson
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the problem is munitions the in game JSf gets JDAM GPS INS Guided Bombs in real life these are utilesed for taking out Hardend and Soft buildings as they are NON tracking bombs In game they are just dumb bombs witch make them hard to aim (unless you are a plane pro) a more idea munition would be a JSOW or "Smart pig" as it is also known these explosives are a pod that drops from the plane. next miniture wings fold from the fusalage of the pod and it is guided along next it drops a number of explosives I.E 4 IR skeets but the bomb can also drop 20+ explosives.

The JSOWs primary role is to take out vehicles that is all nothing else this bomb should have been in the game instead of the JDAM.


Also Aim-120 AMRAAM "slammer" is a GPS INS guided long range AAM is now in universal service with the USAF.



Hope i helped.


Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:10 AM   #27
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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also, as we are on the topic of the JSF. 1 main part which i hate about the JSF it has no "air brakes" ingame as the VTOL has cancled it out as when you put your throttle to - on a J-10 or anouther plane without VTOL in BF2 the air brakes kick in and it slows down really fast. The JSF on the other hand when you put it into - the VTOL kicks in and dosent slow down as fast as the other planes. This puts it at a huge disacvantage as if you are fighting a j-10 he can easily make the JSF over shoot as even if he dose relize he has put his brakes on he cant do much about it apart from brake off and go for anouther run. If a plane is on your ass and you truy to get him to over shoot with the JSF there aint much hope as if the J-10 pilot is gd, he will see your plane go into VTOL mode (if you put it that much back) or just see your plane start to slow and as soon as he sees that he can use his brakes to slow much fast than the JSF can and then mini gun or missle the guy down with grate ease at that speed.

If you can put the VTOL onto anouther key or somthing and then put the airbraikes onto the - arear it would be much better
Also the VTOL bit in BF2 is really crap as if you use it, you are a sittign duck in combat. Its really only used in a non combat situation when landing or takeoff.

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Old 01-29-2006, 10:20 AM   #28
Resjah

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitperson

Also Aim-120 AMRAAM "slammer" is a GPS INS guided long range AAM is now in universal service with the USAF.



Hope i helped.
putting the AIM-120 in the game would be overkill for A-A engagements, with this missiles range of 45 nauticalmiles you would be able to lock on to an enemy plane and shoot it down from across the map

The AIM-9 sidewinder is the perfect missile for the game, and it is already in the game, i just wish they would make the missile more accurate as they are in RL

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Old 01-29-2006, 11:24 AM   #29
Hitperson
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probably more than the map JSOW would be nice


Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
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Old 01-29-2006, 11:34 AM   #30
dawdler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy
putting the AIM-120 in the game would be overkill for A-A engagements, with this missiles range of 45 nauticalmiles you would be able to lock on to an enemy plane and shoot it down from across the map
Technically you would be able to lock in the Kubra Dam sector and shoot it down over Zatar Wetlands.

But yeah, it would be a little overkill.

Sidenote: It would be pretty cool if flying above a certain altitude meant fog would clear, terrain would go really low detail (and increase alot in size) and you would get a new layer of minimap with unique flags (aerial capture). When you capture, the people on the ground would hear stuff like "USMC has gained air superiority!" and enable supply drops or something. That should keep the nasty planes off the ground.

Impossible to code in BF2, but hey that's what dreaming is for
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