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View Poll Results: What should be done with SF kit
Get rid of it 58 16.81%
Make it a limited kit 69 20.00%
Make it a paratrooper kit 91 26.38%
Make it a CQB rifleman kit 72 20.87%
Leave it alone 55 15.94%
Voters: 345. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #141
=*CLA*=StudMuffin21

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Hey DEV's.....good luck with this ongoing discussion. I'm off to Ft. Bragg soon. Maybe when I get back this discussion will be solved.



"Deadly as lightning, soft as a breeze, strike FAST, strike HARD........then return unseen."
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:50 PM   #142
HABO3

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It doesn't make any sense for Special Forces to be ingame, at least as far as the US is concerned. Almost none of the skills of SF units (communications, intelligence, controlling and directing fire support ordinance, languages, knowledge of foreign customs and cultures, advising and training indigenous forces, persuading and advising local and political leaders of foreign countries, reconnaissance and path finding) are related to combat games like PR and A-teams are in fact usually lightly armed and less protected for greater mobility. The main direct action unit that falls under SOCOM is the Rangers AFAIK all other SO units (SEALs, PJs, Force Recon, SF) have objectives that usually involve NOT directly engaging in firefights with the enemy. There are missions where SF units will participate in direct action (capturing or killing terrorist/military leaders and politicians, rescuing US civilians and military personnel for instance) but none of those objectives are ingame, PR is conventional land warfare and SF wouldn't participate in it. Yes we know that SF from time to time do join the big army and fight alongside them but it's not the main mission of SF. About the best job I could see for SF would be for them to lase targets for laser guided bombs and missiles fired from aircraft and helicopters but the game already allows pilots to control those munitions without any support, target identification or clearance.
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Last edited by HABO3; 06-13-2007 at 12:06 AM..
Old 06-13-2007, 11:45 AM   #143
AnRK
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Seconded.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:55 AM   #144
::Major_Baker::
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^^another reason to limit this kit.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:06 PM   #145
Long Bow

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABO3
but none of those objectives are ingame, PR is conventional land warfare and SF wouldn't participate in it. Yes we know that SF from time to time do join the big army and fight alongside them but it's not the main mission of SF. About the best job I could see for SF would be for them to lase targets for laser guided bombs and missiles fired from aircraft and helicopters but the game already allows pilots to control those munitions without any support, target identification or clearance.

I never thought about the context that way before. I always looked at it that we could possibly include limited SF in PR to carry out SF roles. What your saying is PR isn't taking place in an environment designed for SF roles. There really isn't a good reason on any map that SF would be needed over a "regular" Marine. Very interesting, good justification to remove them completely instead of limit them. It would be fun to have SF in limited numbers but it would also be fun to have more players capping and defending.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:16 PM   #146
daranz

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Bow
I never thought about the context that way before. I always looked at it that we could possibly include limited SF in PR to carry out SF roles. What your saying is PR isn't taking place in an environment designed for SF roles. There really isn't a good reason on any map that SF would be needed over a "regular" Marine. Very interesting, good justification to remove them completely instead of limit them. It would be fun to have SF in limited numbers but it would also be fun to have more players capping and defending.
The thing is, the SF class by itself isn't enough to represent special forces that carry out SF roles in real life. SF teams in reality do not consist entirely of guys with M4s with aimpoints who carry a couple of SLAMs in their backpacks. Real life special forces teams do have medics, communication specialists, demolition experts etc. Depending on the mission, they are probably also going to carry SAWs or other support weapons. Because of that, in game, SF forces would be better represented by squads of people using the three other base kits.

Having a dedicated "special ops" class just reeks of vanilla, where these are supposed to be the people who lonewolf behind enemy lines, blowing up UAV trailers and planting C4 on tanks in bases.


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Old 06-13-2007, 12:23 PM   #147
Long Bow

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daranz
The thing is, the SF class by itself isn't enough to represent special forces that carry out SF roles in real life. SF teams in reality do not consist entirely of guys with M4s with aimpoints who carry a couple of SLAMs in their backpacks. Real life special forces teams do have medics, communication specialists, demolition experts etc. Depending on the mission, they are probably also going to carry SAWs or other support weapons. Because of that, in game, SF forces would be better represented by squads of people using the three other base kits.

Having a dedicated "special ops" class just reeks of vanilla, where these are supposed to be the people who lonewolf behind enemy lines, blowing up UAV trailers and planting C4 on tanks in bases.

Ok people need to stop posting intelligent posts, it makes me question my previous posts and opinions

All true what you just said but I'm confused do you still think SF should be included? Even if they integrate in with a squad the PR maps really are not about SF actions right?
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:43 PM   #148
AnRK
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No.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:23 PM   #149
gazzthompson

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no SF kit , and have it so SL'ers have m4


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Old 06-13-2007, 02:28 PM   #150
Outlawz7
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great..I'll join a squad and ask:

"Whats our task and situation?"
<SL wont give a shit, cos he just wants his 1337 M4>

Originally Posted by whatshisname55:
"Ah yes, that link to your hard drive is working perfectly."
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