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Old 10-07-2017, 07:31 AM   #1
Frontliner
Default Altering the launcher folding mechanic on Bradley and Puma

As most of you know, both Bradley and Puma launch their ATGMs via a launcher attached to the side of the vehicle's turret as opposed to the main cannon. For at least the Bradley(Puma does yet not have the system ready as of yet it is unknown whether it behaves the same) this launcher has to be raised/unfolded first in order to fire it. This is done to prevent the launcher from taking damage during travels. Ingame this is done via a work-around that scans for movement during a period and locks/unlocks the gunner's ability to fire based on the distance between the two check points. This is done every 7 seconds(globally), and if either of them move more than 21 ingame meters between two check points the turret is locked and the ATGM cannot be launched.

The problem with this work around is that this has caused both vehicles to be rather inflexible. 21 ingame meters may sound like a bit, but ingame it's a different story due to multiple factors:
1. Your perception of distance is not the same ingame as IRL. You're lacking reference points(although admittedly there is the SL marker - but what if you're not the SL?).
2. Most hills that are tall enough to obscure a Bradley completely are more than 21 ingame meters in radius. Drivers are furthermore forced to drive further than the hill's crest, as they need to in order to be certain that the gunner has the necessary angle on the target. Only if you drive slower than 3m/sec(good luck trying to perceive 3 meters ingame), you're forced to present yourself as a target for an extended period of time even at the maximum allowed speed. While, granted, moving out of cover is always a risk, being forced to spend more than 20 seconds before you can even shoot is unbearable.

In a nutshell, the system condemned both Bradley and Puma to be purely defensive assets, always stationary, always afraid just a bit of movement locks the turret and fucks them up. Executing a simple shoot-and-scoot manoeuver is impossible in all but a few situations, or you're doing so slow calling it "shoot-and-scoot" is retarded.

So, how do we alter this without completely disregarding the Bradley's IRL behaviour?
Well, if you look at this system, you get the idea that EDIT: its design in the game causes it to trigger when the Bradley is moving. How about we change it towards triggering when the Bradley is traveling because that's what it is designed for EDIT: IRL, shielding the launcher from harm during travels?

In order to do this we simply have to change the distance variable towards the Bradley's maximum speed in meters per second(again, the launcher is folded when the vehicle is traveling). Wikipedia reveals 60km/h(72 km/h for the Puma) which equates to roughly 16.6 m/sec(20m/sec)*. Since we want the launcher to pack up when moving over large distances, we don't take the full 16.6m/sec(because then you could have it permanently active with just a little bit of effort), but instead 85% of it, about 14.16(17) m/sec.
With this percentage it should be possible to move the vehicle for at least 7 seconds after the launcher has unfolded because you're gaining speed, which equates to almost 100m(120) of distance, enough to crest ANY hill ingame without locking the turret at the most unfortunate of times.

*ingame meters might not be IRL meters, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem to convert between the two if it is

ArkUTD: Do note this issue was resolved by the admin team and mats, thus this was closed
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.

Mats391: https://i.redd.it/2e7is1ynbkjz.jpg
Mats391 good to see someone is making a profit of PR patches
Frontliner is offline
Last edited by Frontliner; 10-12-2017 at 02:52 AM.. Reason: clarifying an aspect
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:57 AM   #2
viirusiiseli

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Default Re: Altering the launcher folding mechanic on Bradley and Puma

The only change those two IFVs would need if anything, is to lower the launcher ready time slightly.

You shouldn't be directly cresting hills anyway, it's a terrible tactic.

Modify how you play with those vehicles, flank, don't crest hills directly and hold positions for longer. They are slow defensive vehicles in their nature anyway, why is that a problem?

With a tiny bit of effort you can use hills to be able to see the enemy immediately, and to minimize your own visibility. See my great illustration.


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Old 10-11-2017, 06:42 PM   #3
chrisweb89
Default Re: Altering the launcher folding mechanic on Bradley and Puma

If its possible it would definitely be nice to have the launch lock on speed rather than distance traveled. It would even be dropped in speed requirement to 10m/s so that there is a clear asymmetrical difference between vehicles, but both are still effective. Either that or lowering the unlock launcher time a bit.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:48 AM   #4
Frontliner
Default Re: Altering the launcher folding mechanic on Bradley and Puma

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
If its possible it would definitely be nice to have the launch lock on speed rather than distance traveled.
The launcher mechanic is a work-around. Fairly certain that's not possible.

And even if it is, without using a controller or joystick it's not possible to limit your speed to 36km/h without being forced to move in an awkward manner still. My suggestion on the other hand allows for a guaranteed traveling time of 7 seconds(and up to about 10) no matter what you do, whereas your proposal means you'll get fucked up the moment you are past the speed limit without prior warning. I do believe that it's much easier to work with a certain time frame given the how you only get an indication of you fucking when it's too late already.

The unfold takes about 10 seconds IRL. I don't see the Devs lowering that, most of the features that are realistic in time and scope don't get touched unless a need for that exists. I'd like to alter the behaviour of the mechanic over the unfold time because it makes it as player controlled as it can be. The delay between fold and unfold isn't the problem, you get caught with your pants down means you die regardless of the mechanic. The problem is that both Bradley and Puma are forced into playing awkwardly and stationary, and cannot move from their position if they want their ATGMs to be ready and available. Mobility is key for any vehicle IRL but especially so in PR because the view distance is low and combat fast and gamey.

And no Viirus, none of the vehicles are slow, neither are they primarily used for defensive purposes. IFVs by design are supposed to support the infantry at all time in "CQB" and work with tanks and infantry to secure open ground across plains and fields. Or differently put: IFVs go where tanks can't and support tanks over open fields by gunfire, missiles and bringing infantry with it.
That said, the game is a far cry from actual military tactics, I know that as much as you do, but to call an IFV defensive because of a badly handled mechanic is wrong.

ArkUTD: Do note this issue was resolved by the admin team and mats, thus this was closed
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.

Mats391: https://i.redd.it/2e7is1ynbkjz.jpg
Mats391 good to see someone is making a profit of PR patches
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:43 AM   #5
QuickLoad

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Default Re: Altering the launcher folding mechanic on Bradley and Puma

was using bradley earlier and can agree with most if not all of what frontliner said.

the tactics that we're forced to do to play 'safely' against hostile armor is basically defensive.

you use autocannon when attacking, but to use ATGM you must be stationary for a gooooood while, which in an even playing field means that you are waiting for them to come to you.

the weird thing is, I remember specifically during desert storm that a bradley division crested hills with their ATGM's ready to take out hostile tanks, they specifically moved over a hill and fired, before returning to their cover. you can't do this in PR currently, though.
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