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Old 07-06-2012, 07:56 PM   #1
Arnoldio
Banned
Default AAS flag delay

Not that AAS is faulty or broken, but there room for improvement. My age old concern with PR is that its like footbal. It has tactics, but the ball goes left and right.

Same in PR. People cap flags left and right. Its more about timing, than it is about tactics, planning and teamwork. I mean, real warfare is about timing aswell, but not like here.

Tell me, how many times in the history of playing PR, did you stop on a ridge or behind a hedge, or asked a sniper/CO to tell you the movement of the patrols, and where enemies are defending, so you can take them out preciselly... Or maybe the sniper takes out the AR, so you have less trouble getting to the place. I have never ever played this scenario in many, many years of PR

Both teams are constantly on the move, because once you cap a flag, some of the team leaped forward to the next flag, and when you attack a flag, you might start loosing people on the defending flag, wich then gives you exactly X minutes to cap your objective, otherwise both will be neutral and you will have to pull back to regain control and so on... People shuffle the field, vaguely following the trail of flags.
Observing an area to get solid intel is pointless because they arent really defending, but merely passing through the flag. By the time you are confident for an attack, they went to the next flag, or did something else to disturb your plan.

There is no actual need to defend if you play smart. I mean, there is a need to defend from direct enemy attack, but defending as in prevention is barely needed.

So what would make the flag jumping slower? I dont really know, maybe slower flag capping? Or if possible the need to hold a flag after its capped for 10-15 minutes (with a minimum ammount of people, a squad or so), otherwise it will start going neutral, so it is actually "a slow cap" but the fact that it caps before its "secured, allows the team to move to the next flag and secure that, as opposed to slow capping that would just make the game really slow. With this delayed secure, it would be hard to leap because team would get "stuck" on the flags, meaning that 2 flags would be in play for an extended period of time, and after that it shifts over to the next set with actual teamwork, scouting and tactics, instead of clever timing and leaping.

Its missing the Secure from Advance and Secure.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:51 AM   #2
SGT.Ice

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Default Re: AAS flag delay

The 10-15 min "Secure" idea is interesting.

Though to add to such imo the flag should randomize if you take X spot, and then lose it the new objective will be at Y, if that gets lost during the advance it moves to Z. Actually another thing if it is possible to code (Give the commander of the defending team maybe the option to choose the next flag they want. Hmm well what i'm thinking may have to become a new game mode if it's possible.

Both commanders choose a flag out of a set cluster on the field & there would be a random chance it is chosen or another cluster is chosen(Which if you want to argue it could simulate the theater commander choosing another route for some strategic purpose). Gives the commander more of a role, makes AAS & the battle field more "alive".

Another thought I had is a 5-10 minute delay till the next flag in order is active, that's what I actually thought was going to be suggested when I saw the name.


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Old 07-07-2012, 05:20 AM   #3
40mmrain
Supporting Member

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Default Re: AAS flag delay

seems a little contrived. Worth testing, or devising a new game mode for.

Though, what about two flag maps? That would certainly mean a lot of relevance for heavy defence, intelligence gathering, etc.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:51 AM   #4
Arnoldio
Banned
Default Re: AAS flag delay

That random flag or hidden flags was already discussed, and its advanced. It is possible though probably, kinda like insurgency with flags...

But thats not the point here, its just that you should be defending an objective for a certain ammount of time. You see now it is like that. You have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 flags to be capped, enemy starts at 5, you at 1. What you do is send SQ1 to 1 to cap, SQ2 to 2 to cap when SQ1 caps and when SQ1 caps 1, they go to 3 to cap that as soon as SQ2 caps 2. SQ1 is then capping/defending 3 and SQ 2 goes to 4 to attack. Nobody secured nothing. 1 and 2 were left bahind as soon as they were capped. Idont believe that is a position that was secured, only states that somebody was there at some point.

Now if there was a must to have people on the flag for 10-15 minutes to "hard-cap" it, you would have to leave 6 people behind to stay there and would need more and more squads to leap forward, not just two. SQ1 would have to stay at 1, SQ2 at 2 and you would need another, SQ3 to go on 3. Not only that this would spread your forces thin, nobody can go help SQ3 otherwise the other flags would start dropping back to neutral if they werent secured, so only option would be for SQ3 to fall back, otherwise the team would screw themselves.

This opens a whole new approach to moving the frontline and spec ops operations. Additional thingy, that has been said already, but would be perfect. Enemies dont have an impact on flags that are not in play for them, wich means, you can rush enemy first flag but you cant win with hiding and preventing cap, youd have to actually kill them all for them to stop capping. With rushing you also lose people that could sit on an unsecured flag and posibly lose stuff behind. But lets say rushing is bad and sever doesnt allow it until both teams capped first flags. after that, yu can go to any flag you want and kill the "securers" to make it "insecure" because thats what it really becomes.

So, quick recap:
You cap the flags as it is now, 15 seconds- 1 minute, i dont know how fast it is. After its capped, there has to be a minimum of 6 people (can be 4+2 crewmen in an APC, or whatever) for a window of time between 10 and 15 minutes (would be extra good if it was random between those two.) If the number drops below 6, after 3 minutes or so, area is rendered insecure and reverts to neutral immediately. (timer goes towards securing for those 3 minutes, even if headcount is too low.
Also, AAS progresses at the same rate as now. When you cap, next flag is in play, but leaving 6 people for 10 minutes is still necesary, eventhough AAS shows only flags that are on the frontline.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:31 AM   #5
Xander[nl]

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Default Re: AAS flag delay

A large ticket penalty perhaps if a flag is capped back by the enemy within X minutes. This could prevent 'ninja capping' or rushing as your team would have to properly secure the flag or otherwise would lose a lot of tickets by not doing so.

This would mean you can't just go from flag to flag and capping. You'll have to carefully prepare for both the attack itself and the defense afterwards.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:40 AM   #6
[R-DEV]Rudd
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: AAS flag delay

If the enemy is actually defending a flag....it takes a while to take it lol, if they aint defending it then they deserve to lose it and lose it fast


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Old 07-07-2012, 07:27 AM   #7
WeeD-KilleR
Supporting Member
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: AAS flag delay

The 10-15 minute uncapable is a bad idea. Will tend that players even defend less. But at a option that when there is no player in flagrange the flag will slowly decap to neutral. This will force players to have a defend and fixes the problems that in a lot of times players do not defend.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:48 AM   #8
Arnoldio
Banned
Default Re: AAS flag delay

Actually, WeedKiller, that is even a simpler solution that could work. As i understand, if there is no people on the defending flag, it goes to neutral. Only problem there is, is that if the team caps the attacking flag, the defenders can again leap over to the next attacking flag, since theirs is out of play.

Your idea is simpler and easier to implement, maybe DB can do it? So, 6 people on the defending flag atleast, otherwise it starts going neutral, less people, faster the neutralising. It would retard the rapid advancement and shifting of the troops.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:13 AM   #9
WeeD-KilleR
Supporting Member
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: AAS flag delay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnoldio View Post
Actually, WeedKiller, that is even a simpler solution that could work. As i understand, if there is no people on the defending flag, it goes to neutral. Only problem there is, is that if the team caps the attacking flag, the defenders can again leap over to the next attacking flag, since theirs is out of play.
yeah, you got it. thanks that you like that idea.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:29 PM   #10
doop-de-doo
Supporting Member

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Default Re: AAS flag delay

I understand the concept and intention of the OP in that it could force the factions to meet at specific locations rather than merely outmaneuvering the enemy.

One must remember that the main method of "Assault and Secure" is already present in the way it is currently played. With quick capture times, it allows a venture party to "assault" the next flag while still allowing a defense team to "secure". If a team fails to secure and the enemy reaches their objective, the game advances.

Supposing the OP idea was applied, I would assume that the opposing teams would become completely embroiled on one flag. It would take so long to cap that the other team might never run out of ways to reinforce that flag. In that light, one would see the objective, rather than the whole map, as the battleground

IMO, if you want maps that require continuous defense as specified above, the I believe that 32x32player maps should have two (max 3) flags. Both flags would be in play until a team loses or time runs out. In that situation, the cap might be set to 5-10 minutes. Observe that we have seen this game mode before (Assault on Mestia) and have since moved on to AAS4.


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